Finding Emo
Finding Emo

Episode 43 · 5 months ago

Ep043 - Straylight Run (self-titled)

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

After the dramatic Taking Back Sunday falling out, John Nolan and Shaun Cooper started Straylight Run along with Will Noon and John's sister, Michelle. On this episode, we talk about their awesome debut self-titled record. #teamnolan for sure. 

Notes:

Wel when finding emi our podcast, we discuss our favorite albums from the early odds thereabouts. I'm Blake Fisher, I'm joined by Chris Monyane Kyle Simmons and we've got a new ask for two thousand and twenty two. We do. If you go to finding emo podcom, it's still not really a full website. It's just kind of a splash page because we just don't have the energy. But you can. You can sign up for an email list for us just in case we decide we need to like, I don't know, blast you guys out there. We're going to do some special event or something, or maybe will, I don't know, sell tshirts or something. So anyway, join our email list. We promised not to spam you or sell it to other people. We're just going to like, you know, communicate with you if you like the show, and also will put that in the show notes if you care about that and can find them. But then the other thing, the normal ask is, you know, subscribe and rate our podcast. A great reason to rate your podcast is if you as promised, if you didn't get covid over Christmas like everyone, then your thank you is give us you know, a review. That's what you should do, because it was us the protected you. We're probably going to get a lot of five stars. Yeah, no, probably not, because everyone gotta nobody got covid over everyone. Everyone got covid over Christmas. So first show of two thousand and twenty two, we are doing the self titled Album From Two Thousand and four, from stray light run, and Kyle is gonna tell us about the things he learned about this album. Gom and and actually first, happy new year, guys. Yeah, you too, happy here to you and and everyone listening. So the craziest thing to me about this record is we've done a lot of records so far that we just love and could talk forever about, but we can't find more than two sentences on and I feel like there was, in medical terms, a buttload of information on this. How scientific, for sure, sus. That's a scientific measurement. Yeah, that metric, but it is scientific. Yeah, yeah, and though and so like. Honestly, it's I really like this album, but it's more than I care to discuss. So I'll give you the highlights and we can talk a little bit. There's some there's some drama, which I know you guys like juicy drama. We do like drama. So, okay, this album was recorded from March to June of two thousand and four. It was released October twelve two thousand and four. It was released on victory. And so what's crazy about that is the only reason it was released on victory is because Sean and John had a contractual obligation to make records, Yep, for victory, and they had left taken back Sunday, let's take they were going to let him out of that contact. The only the only way they were going to make music was for victory. And so the claim is that basically John and John was writing during the taking back Sunday time and a little bit before he was writing some stuff that didn't didn't quite fit taking back Sunday, which I find weird because, like it's not super fresh on my memory. But when we did the taking back Sunday episode, it was like him and Adam were like, you know, Paul McCartney and John Lennon. They just they just jived so well and wrote beautiful music together. I'm like, oh, sure, promise you, I promise you. Someone our age back then said that sure, Mike. As as like a fan of taking back Sunday. Were like they are the Linnen McCartney of our generation, which is hilarious to be I mean, I really like taking back so day. Give me wrong. Taking back Sunday is the first band that I meant multiple people that they had lyrics tattooed on themselves and I was what, yeah, taking back Sunday. Yeah, anyway, really like them. So so he's writing stuff. It don't quite it's taking back to. The claim is that John had these extra songs that didn't fit taking back Sunday, and I'm also calling bullcrap on that because we can talk as we get into this. But like you change this mix up and some of these, plenty of these are taking back Sunday songs. Just fine. But whatever, John wrote these songs and all of his free time that he had, you know, in taking back Sunday an initially him and Sean left, and I think we discuss this on taking back Sunday episode, but he they left initially because they were so tired from touring. And then it later came out that no Adam was dating John's sister, who is also in stray light run, and he cheated on her while on tour and John was pissed and he left the band in such a bad move and you had still like come, not on his part, on the on Adams part. I have chosen. Thanks for cleared that up. Like yeah,...

...just clearing that up. John in the right here, I think his little sister. I have chosen to do this solely for memory, because I feel like that's how gossip should be treated, not with the facts. For sure it like, am I wrong? That isn't that? Initially how the drama started, that that Michelle was dating Jesse from from brand new? No, no, I know that it's the girl. It was a different girl and pretty. Do We know that? Or do are we assuming that? Come on, Blake, for the drama. I feel like I know that for some reason, because I thought when we did the taking back Sunday thing, we named her and posted her fare. No, I don't know why. I never the reason I think that that's not the case is because I never even considered that until just now when you set it, and so I that's why I thought it wasn't. Okay, I could be wrong, I don't know. We'll never know. I mean that that would have to be somewhere that's got it that she would be that girl that was the famous in between of the brand new and taking that. Surely, surely it's in a subread it somewhere? Or and don't you think that, like there's got a good journalist somewhere that's listening right now that could be like, Hey, I'm gonna go find the actors in this, in this play. Oh No, no, wait, wait, wait, wait, I know why it's not. Is because wasn't the problem? Wasn't the brand new and taking back Sunday beef between John and Jesse? Not, yes, Adam and Jesse. No, wait, you're right. Yeah, so it's definitely not Michelle, because that's why it was John's girlfriend. Is John, and then Adam. But you know what, you know what? I'm glad you remembered that, Blake, because here's the deal. There we are sources of our mail. Here there are innocence in this story, Right John? Well, maybe, I guess. Maybe John. No, I think John's the definitely the good guy and all of this. Yeah, I mean he did say that he wishes friend would die in a car wreck, though. That's pretty eff but don't you think this was like east coast west coast rap battling kind of stuff. I mean, yeah, like it was, was more performative than it really was. Okay, all right, no, not like it was all based in truth, but yeah, and I'm thinking they were played it up, yeah, just like freaking East Coast West Coast hip hop was based on something. But I think once people started actually getting shot, I think even the most hardcore of those guys were like, you know what, we might have taken this a little too far, you know, and and obviously escal that did never escalate. The emo scene never really escalated to that level where anyone actually got shot or anything. So I think they don't. Shots were fired what not real shots, emotional, lyrical shots, which is a pretty pansy compared to Tupac actually getting murdered, which which I forgot to mention. I think the thing I enjoyed the most about the the research, the wikipedia page research on this one was the very first line of straylight runs. WIKIPEDIA says trailight run is an emo band. That's what it says. And is there a source? was there like a little source? Sure for that? No, but like I was like, all right, well, this it's official. We can do this record. We can do this record on the podcast. Thank you, Wi media. Okay, so we'll get back to the to the beef, because there is there is another chapter in that story. So let's put a pin or a book mark. That's a book mark in that will get to clear up. Michelle, younger sister of Johnlin, is dating Adam and taking back Sunday he sheets on her. Breaks her heart. John to defend his sister's honor and probably for other reasons, because I doubt the basis left to defend problem shells, lonned women everywhere. Yeah, but they leave and they start straylight run with a couple other people. Michelle, will, I forget wills last name. Will Moon, drummer. Yeah, that's right, and and he. Okay, so another weird thing. We're crossing wires here. But another weird thing about will is will was the drummer for breaking Pangaea, and Fred of Breaking Pangaea, is the lead singer and guitarist. Is who went and played in place of John. Right, Fred Marsh? Yeah, we're she no, Marcia, yes, you there. Yeah, yeah, it's so real, tangled web. It's. And then on the looted dude, and on top of that then well, I mean we can talk about this later. Nate Russ is on this album and will ends up being the drummer in fun Yep, yeah, so that. Yeah, it's like nobody else could get a record deals because there's like eight people in every band. Yeah, I just all this wrong. Yeah, we're all trying to hey you which you get one record deal over here? That somebody's. We're not from Long Island. Oh No, no, no, no, guys. Sorry. So okay. So a couple other things that I thought were interesting about this record are we'll get into this at track by track. I'm just going to say for myself, spoilers up front. I love...

...this record. I do not love the way that it is mixed. Yeah, I think there's their production. I think victory is pretty cheap. There's some, there's some there are so far questionable. We know. Yeah, we I think we had. I think you guys have some inside on that. But but there are some production questions I have and and we'll get into that. But in spite of all that, I love this record. But what I thought was hilarious is some of the some of the most crap happing on production that we've ever done is was on the coheed and Cambria record. Yeah, and those of the producers that produce this record away and they claimed that they were impressed by coheed and Cambria's record. Now, in okay, in fairness to them, is two thousand and four, so like we're at the dawn of things, sounding really, really good. But they know what a good sounding record sounds like and it was not the coheed and Cambria record. Well, year did that one come out? Two Thousand and three, the year before? I think so. I mean, dude, is better than that. For sure, this is better. Probably had a higher production value, I mean as far as like budget, but cash. Yeah, I mean so. I mean they certainly are getting better playing produced. We but even so, to listen to that record and go wow, in that time, to listen to that record and go, you know what, those are the guys. That is just that is just mind blowing to me. And and what's even kind of Funnier to me is it talks about how, like nate and some other bands brought them out before they put this record out, brought them out on tour and like they had they basically had demo Itis, you know, they'd played these songs and so when they went into record they said that they really didn't need them to produce because they liked the way that the songs were. We've talked in the past about how important producers are. Like yeah, you're not going to convince any of the three of us that that's a good idea. And so and also, again, this is a great record in spite of that. But, like it does, I did find myself wondering while listening to it, like what would this have been like if you know? And so, anyway, dude, the record goes on to sell two hundred and fiftyzero copies, which is not dude. I never I had no idea that this was no, I had no idea. You know, I think I was pretty surprised when we I, I to spoiler alert, really like this record and when we started, when we kyle I had, you know, I had not listened this record in a while and then when we did the taking back Sunday episode, I kind of got back into listening to them and I was like, Gosh, I forgot how good this record was. But this, I guess I didn't notice last time. I mean this has like, I think, whatever the tractory is with the Prom night axistentialism has like ten million streams on spotify, which obviously it is a good mind everything post, you know, and and most of the other tracks have about a million players. But I'm like, okay, so that's like people are getting spotify ten years removed from this album coming out. So that's not really completely indicative of I think they were more popular than I thought they were. I think you're right, but and and also just I just want to keep I want to have a clear voice on this podcast about one thing, that that song is the exception when it comes to mix and production. That's well, I think they knew. I think they knew what the singles were and they spent more time and effort on the I mean, you know, when you've got a budget on a small record, on an indi let I mean victory is not a they've got taken back some. You think they had Twentyzero for this record? If that fifteen, I think they probably had a decent budget because John had wasn't taking back suney before and so there was a hype around it that you wouldn't get with anyone else's debut album on an indie label like victor vaguer or name man like bands. Its Way. I think I'm still complaining about victory, like new bands are signing to victory and complaining about it. What. Okay, so if you're locked into a contract as a person, you know, like John was, yeah, you get to renegotiate with the label. I mean, isn't a lot of times in those deals. Yeah, I was gonna say. I was going to say I bet he they are. Didn't they tell you what they're going to give you for the first, second and third record? Right? Right, not. I don't know if I always do on them on an indie like that. I mean, like I think you're lucky if you get any kind of deal now. Probably do get a negotiate that kind of stuff, like record budgets and stuff, but I don't know. That's it's a weird thing when that happens, because that's what that's why I like Travis Barker, could do whatever he wanted for a long time. He was not a signed he did not have a signed contract as a member of blank way to for like three or four albums. By his own probably desire, because he could then go do whatever he wanted to. Didn't at that end up talked to anybody. Generally they would let drummers do that anyway. They're they're they very...

...rarely say no. That's why you always see like this person appears courtesy of this label on when they'd like do guest vocals on a record or something, because the labels almost never say no, you can't go do that, because it generally is not bad for that person's career or something. But in this kid situation, victory was not going to let a sort of golden goose of sorts, you know, half of the Lennon McCartney of our just of our generation. Look, I love John Nolan, but, like I think he would laugh at that too. I'm sure right, definitely, you know. But yeah, victory is not going to let let them go. It's interesting that everyone, but that's another big difference to a lot of major labels won't sign the whole band. They just sign the primary creative people so they don't have to deal with this crap. If the basis leaves any labels don't, they generally signed everyone, because you might as well lock everyone into that deal so that if anyone leaves and they start another band, you've got for generally what it's probably going to be as like a first refusal kind of thing. If you leave the band and you start another band, the that label gets the chance to put it out first because they're under contract, or if they decide they don't like it, they'll let you out of it. And and so we we clearly see that that's the case here, being that Sean was was held to that as well right the bay. So according to your research, your deep, deep research into weep dive and MS spack stories, cousins friends. It is interesting, though, because I really can't think of another situation that happened just like this. We're basically a band breaks out with a debut, they immediately have a falling out and then some of those people now, I mean it happened with a couple of those. What was the other band that was like that? Was it at the drive in and Oh, Mars Volta, Mars Volta and Sparta, I can't remember. It was who and which one's broke off from what. So I mean it did happen a couple times, but you know, it's an interesting situation for sure, because you end up with these kind of split fan bases of these bands are kind of similar, but I appreciate that like they didn't try to be another version of taking back Sunday. Sure that was the first thing that kind of attracted me to it. Well, specially from someone with such a distinct voice right like it. I mean it's yeah, he's not hiding who he is, but I'm into okay, we's talk first impressions. Then, if you're good on the research side and you can keep you can keep throwing a little tidbits of knowledge at us if you want to. Kyle will come back. Rest of the drama. Okay, so that's good. Three later, Chris. What are your what were your first thoughts on it? First Impressions back in the day in two thousand and four? Yeah, it's definitely well, I think I knew right away when there was going to be John Sister in the band that it was going to be a little different, but it definitely was really interesting. I wouldn't consider taking back Sunday a pop band. They had POPs, notabilities, but this is this is like more like a pop record. Seemed to really show that you know the songwriting chops for there, regardless of genre, and it really surprised me. I don't want to say like knocked me off my feet, but I was like, oh, this is really good and and not a lot of victory records. Yeah, you got the four songs and then, you know, just trails off and then when I saw leven songs, I think I remember thinking like okay, I don't know if you guys can do this for but you know, it had some staying power. It's pretty good song for song. So I I would say it was pleasantly surprised and enjoyed listening to it a lot. It was definitely the populous thing on victory. So yeah, I mean, yeah, so, yeah, I agree it it. I think that helped it stand out a little because they kind of had a lane they could go in that wasn't being filled by another band on victory. So I mean I think it gave them a little bit more of a of a runway in that regard. But I don't think that victory would have signed this band though, if the guys in the band weren't already signed. That makes sense. Oh, I doesn't say not not happening. Yep, yeah, I'm with you on that one, Kyle, about you first impressions. So I I remember liking it instantly. I will say, I've already said it again, the I I remember. I didn't. I didn't remember it sounding like it does to me now then, like I was like this is great, everything about it is great. But also, I agree with you guys, it's a pop band. Like I think the only thing emo about him is are their lyrics, you know, but like the songs are not. I don't think the style is at all emo and and it may even be. It's not like I have victories catalog memorize, but it may be the populist thing they've ever put out.

So I don't know. We could probably look into that, but I I'd say you're probably right. Yeah, so, but yeah, I'm dude. I mean I there are some killer songs on this record and and I liked him right away. So yeah, you know, it's weird. I do not remember. I remember the drama stuff. Then leaving John was kind of one of my favorite parts of taking back Sunday. I just I felt like I felt like he was the thing I liked about I couldn't prove it, but it I sort of was vindicated by that. By then not really liking them without John as much. And I don't think it was like a it wasn't like loyalty or something like that. It's like I was caught up in the like well, I'm I think it was like we're going to be it was. Maybe it was, but but it really was kind of like the guy that came in, whatever his name is, to replace John and taking back Sunday. His vocals just did not do it for me the way John's it. It's just like I really liked it's really like John's voice a lot. It's not like a perfect voice, I just think it's really he has a lot of emotion, like and he always gets the emotional take. It's not the perfect take maybe, but it's like, oh, Yep, that's it. I mean you, you saying those words in the perfect way. So I think he's really good at that and so I remember liking it, but I really don't remember like I mean, I'm sure I got it like the week it came out because like everyone knew this new about this new band that they were doing. I think they had released a couple songs, if memory serves before you know that summer or something like that. Yeah, and I really like it. I'm into this kind of stuff. I mean I think that it's obvious, if you've listened to me talk for more than five minutes about music, that I'm into poppy stuff and I especially like piano driven kind of rock pop indie stuff, and this fit right in there. And plus I may have had like a pretty serious crush on Michelle, like you know, she's pretty cute and and I like the brother sister thing. That's a fun I think anytime siblings are in a band together it's fun. So yeah, I was into it too, and I think that I kind of went from loving taking back Sunday to okay now, I left strayl run because I feel like John was the thing that I really and it's not like I don't like taking my sunny, but I really didn't. I wasn't like into them after that record, that first record, something is missing for some of those missing and and that's probably unfair of me, for sure, but that would be my first impression. I liked it. So shall we talk about track by track? Let's do it. Okay, let's see. Let's go to track one, which is the perfect ending. Ironically, title just Christmas. Good you. First thoughts on the first track, titled to Perfect Ending. I don't know, kind of a bold way to start off the record when you just got quit taking back Sunday right. No drums. It's a ballad. Layers of sense, galock and Spiel. Yeah, but that familiar. I what? There is this interesting rhyming scheme that he does. I wrote down over and told yet like how will rhyme up? I don't know, I don't know what you call it, but you rhyme like the end of a sentence with the middle of a sentence and then carry that sentence into the neck. I don't know. It's very, very very hymn and all the layers that bring the chorus up. It's hard in a ballad to to do that if you're not going to have a rhythm section to get bake the chorus sound bigger. He did it really well. Yeah, Kyle thoughts. I mean I agree. It's it was a it was a bold beginning to the record and and it worked for me. I enjoy it. It builds really well. Yeah, I like that that. First of all, the I mean not first of all because I guess. Last of all, the very last note that the gogging Spool hits like very quietly in the end is like perfect. It's really great. Is that guitar like like sliding at all, like kind of the way? I think it's a sound. I think it's an EBO. Okay, I'm not totally shun a whale. It's not an ORCA. Sounds like an emo. That's they killed the whole budget. That's why the productions bad and brought Shamo and for yeah, but I agree. It's like a bold like hey, we are something di different. I'm sure that was purposeful. Absolutely, it makes sense to me that it...

...would be purposeful. I like it. It's a good first track. It's not at all, I mean, what you'd expect from a band at around this time, especially banned on victory records, especially from, you know, a couple of the guys from taking back Sunday, because that album was just all rock, basically. And Yeah, so it's definitely an interesting take and in a fun way. They you got. You can go two ways with the start of the record. You can either like freaking punch him in the mouth or you can slow burn it, and this is definitely in that kind of slow burn clarity style table for glasses. We're going to build you into the second track and I like it so, but it's still very much John. You're right, the Leer. I he does have a style to those lyrics and stuff. So okay, let's contract. Oh, go ahead, you haven't going to say well, with his lyrics. One of the things that I think is funny about this song. If you made it, just be glad that you didn't stay there. It goes on further in the chorus and if it's over, remember what I told you. It was bound to happen. So, like, if you made it, great, I'm happy for you. If you didn't, just remember that I told you that you probably wouldn't. Yeah, he does. He does a bit of that on it. If there's some of that in like mistakes, we knew we're making two where it's kind of like wait, you're kind of taking both sides. Yeah, of this brilliant. You can be right no matter what. There is maybe a little bit of that. Okay, let's go to track too, which is the tension in the tearror. Someone. It's good to you. First were your thoughts on tenitions in the tearror. Okay, so I'm going to say I think that this song kicks, but but I'm also going to say that the simple first song kind of kept us from poor mixing, I think, and hearing this like, I swear what I feel like when I listen to this record, and I know you guys know this feeling Blake, like if you were rocking out and like something happened to your amp and your guitar just wasn't producing the way that it should be. Like I feel like that's what's going on here, like that freaking snare is just back. The drums are really the thing. You're right, I'm quite working and and the guitar is just like the freaking lead part is so much louder than then the other part. It's just it's the mix is weird and also it's still an awesome song. Yeah, I was cry. Just would regret not mentioning like I listened to this thing quite a bit and I was just like man, what the heck, and knowing that it's those freaking coheed and Cambria, Yay, who's it just makes so much sense. They've got a lot better in this year, though. I mean honestly, this is still way better to bounce. The budget might be two or three times as much too. That's true. Our Chris, what are your thoughts on the tension in the terror? I guess it's because I'm a drummer. I guess I kind of like the drump set. I really like the snare sound. But now that you met now you pointed out maybe the reason I was able to really hone in on the great snare sounds because it's way too freaking but I just think it's too compressed. It so much the myth. That's what it feels like to me. It just sounds like, yeah, something like they're hitting a table, almost like it doesn't have enough like snare definition in my opinions. But he's playing before you want. You want that hit right, yeah, the way he's playing the but like like the remshot. Yeah, it's just like doesn't do it for me so well. And I think the other weird thing about the snare specific specifically from like a like in the mix of what's going on is that, oddly enough, like there's less competing sonic stuff because it's not as guitar driven, because it is more piano driven. I mean this song is more guitar driven, but as far as the record in general, and so it's like, you know, you have more space with piano to like have a big fat snare in there, but it just feels I don't know that that is the thing that bothers me the most about this record is the snare sound. But it's funny that you like it and it's and this, by the way, the production. I'm dogging a little bit on this production, but it as far as badly produced albums from this era, and by badly I mean like stuff we're kind of crapping on this podcast. Yeah, it is way better than some of the other ones that we've talked about. I mean it's like, you know, panic at the disco and...

...code and Cambria and even taking back Sunday's first record are all like quite a bit worse than this one. That has an awful kind of almosts. They have like errors almost in them. Yeah, you know, like it's almost like they were which happens when you're pressed for time because you're you don't have the budget, as you kind of like you can't go back and like do that a hundred times or get the take you want. You know and I don't mind imperfections and playing. I actually really like imperfections and playing because I think that's how people really play and I think it makes I think that's what makes this album work, is that it sounds like a band and it's not perfect. I don't I don't like perfect stuff. It it drives me crazy. But, like the snares, sound could be better and still not be perfectly quantized or whatever like. That's not what I'm asking for. I don't I don't want to super I do like really polished records sometimes I can appreciate them, but I don't like overproduction in the sense that it kills the emotion, and this still has that emotion. So yeah, that makes it okay for me, if that makes sense. But it's a great song. It's it's a really good second song to after what, you know, we went through with the first track just being really chill. Yeah, brings it out a ramping up. This brings it up to a nice, nice, much. But I can see how if you wrote this song, like let's go back to the discussion about like did he really have these songs like ready to go? I believe, I do believe that a little bit kyle, because, like I can hear how this is almost a taking back Sunday song, but not an like, but enough that the rest of the guys in the band and be like, I don't know, it feels like that would be. This would be a really poppy song for taking back Sunday. Yeah, well, he gets could have had like starters or little memos or like the bones of these songs and it kind of formed them with this new new band right. Well, and I was. I was that guy in the band too. I write songs that never fit in Christ and eye band and so that's why I had that like Solo side project stuff. Is like, well, I'm writing these songs. They do not fit in our band at all, like you know. And it wasn't just because Chris is like being an a hole not letting me write songs for the band. It was like they just didn't fit. They really didn't. So I can see how John could have been that too write, you know. And plus the fact that they churn this out pretty quickly post them leaving taking back Sunday makes me think that some of the songs are released ready because, especially when you didn look at the next straylight run record, which is just not as good, makes me think that you that sophomore slump of writing specifically might have been a real thing, but I don't know. Shall we go to track three, or you guys have any more thoughts on a that one? Okay, existentialism. Gosh, that's hard to say on Prom night. Here we go. Just Chris boy, let's go to you first, because you were are singing along. What your thoughts on this? cratch a good clip. Man, I tried. Man, I love this song. So it is so good. This was one of my mixtape go tooes, for sure, a really beautiful, melancholy, sad sounding song. They I they had to know when they were mixing this in, like putting the finish he touches on. It was a spectacular song. I just it's perfect, great layers, snare rolls in the verse, the Acoustic Guitar in the Bass, just kind of light touches. I know the production is not perfect, but and the background vocals there, the way their voices blend together, marvelous love. I'm so glad you brought up that. I forgot to write down that note, but that I do love, Love, love the drum part on the versus. It's so cool. Yeah, and I really feel like the rhythm section I did not appreciate as much back then as I did now listening to it again. Oh my gosh, man like he's a really good bass player. SEAWAN wheels a good drummer too. Yeah, and and they really do. I don't feel like he I don't remember feeling a who the bass lines on the taking back Sunday record. We're awesome, but it was a little more straightforward e rock. Yeah, and I feel like, Gosh, you really got to like kind of do some cool stuff on this record. And Yeah, the verses on the drug, the rhythm sections cool on this song. Yeah, I think you're right. They had to know. I think that kind of brings up your point on the productions, which one of you said that a second ago, that like they clearly spent some more time on this one. Yea, then maybe some of the other tracks. I totally agree, but I think it's because they knew it was going to be really good and gonna launch them.

So, coyle water thoughts on the TRAF I mean freaking awesome song. The Rhythm Section is insane and I think that, I mean I think there are several other songs that he's just going crazy on the bass on this album. I completely agree. I don't remember listening to that, taking back Sunday record and being like man, he's killing that bass, but he's doing it on this record. He's real good. And Yeah, and and the freaking blood harmony between John and his sister on this one. Blood harm blood harmony, is exactly what that should be called. It is what it's called. That's what it's called. Yeah, that's the actual that's that's what it's called. Il Ever this yeah, I can't believe I didn't know that was another band sampling. I love. I think it's always better when people, they were related, are harmonizing with each other, because blood they alread. Okay, we'll see there anything that. Is there a sibling band that sells blood harmony? It seems like a no, but they should. Yeah, the handsome should have changed their harmony. Good harmony, but but I mean really though. I mean that's a good example, though. Hanson stone type pilots had guys didn't do ton of background vocals but did some of the stuff. Good, Charlotte, I don't know what fuck. Okay, it's really funny that you bring up Good Charlotte. Today I'm scrolling through instagram mindlessly on a break and I did not know that one of those guys is married to Cameron Diaz. Yeah, she like quit acting for him. Yeah, I had no idea love him and she's awe, doesn't love him. It was like in my discovery feeder, something was like happy anniversary. was like, is that the guy from Good Charlotte? One of the two? I don't know what camera which one is? I think it's Bingi. Yeah, man, he wont you like. He freaking one the love lottery, and that dude is probably just walking on tins and needles because, like his luck has got to be up. It's really funny that you brought that up, because that was a get. If I didn't know, well, it's a bad had a good run. They've been married for like seven years. I had no idea to anyway. Total side tangent. Anyway, the point is siblings and bands, I agree, have great things, and especially great harmonies. And yet boy girl harmonies like kind of I feel like even elevates it just a notch above. Yeah, and outside blood harmony. The only way you can get that good at singing with each other is to be in a band for like forty years, like the edgine Bano, where the edge I sounds just like Bano. Now I can't can't even tell the difference, but that's yeah, it's a I can't believe I didn't know the term blood harmony until just now. I'm learning things from you, Kyle Hey. Cool. Well, there's probably not more where that came from. That's it. That's all you've got. Doesn't Benjie have MXPX TATTOO? Yeah, totally so. You know his wikipedia? His wikipedia page has some very interesting facts about his tattoos. Then I'm not going to repeat on this. Fuck. You could discern that maybe Cameron Diaz has listened to Emma's watch PX my career rings has probably hung out with them. How Weird is that? So Am let's still a whole podcast on that later. It's six girl. You'll have to yeah, Elementary School Blake that saw the mask. Would would be pretty job. Yeah, Benjie. Well, so, like a last thing about good Charlotte. Yeah, this is not about good Charlotte. In fairness to good Charlotte, as much as like, as much as we will do a good Charlotte record and we have alluded to it. Maybe not holding up or whatever, I do think that they're harmony as brothers is definitely one of their best features. Solely agree. That's fair, anyway. Yeah, so the blood harmony on this song excellent and I freaking love how how just like heavy it is at the end when they go back into the chorus. It's just like, this is not a heavy song, but it is freaking just it rocks, you know, Great Song. And how good is the line sing like you think no one's listening. Oh, that's just a really good line. Well, I also love the line about you know, we were sleeping in and we were dreaming, you know, like like it just and it sounds so nice the way that he sings it. The you can visualize it. Also, I think now is as good a time as any for me to say that this whole record is almost a sacred heart song. Like almost any of these songs could fit on an episode of Scrubs, and honestly, we never look beforehand. Wouldn't surprise me at all if this song was on scrubs. This definitely you kind of you didn't exactly say the exact phrase, Chris, but yeah, I think we have to steal Kyle's mixtape. must for this one, though. I mean it's a great yeah, it's as true song for a...

...mixtape and it's kind of hopeful and I just it's really good and you can totally hear, I mean like the like, okay, him doing the thing, like you think no one's listening and then you would killed for this just a little bit, just a little bit. That is such a thing that he was adding that flavor to take the back Sunday, like it's almost like he's sang both Adams part in his part Yep, in this one chorus and it I just feel like that flavor, like I was like that's what I was missing on the next taking back Sunday record, and it's not. It's not as bad as I panned it when it came out. Came up the same year's this right the second taking back Sunday record? I think so. And but I was missing this, like that the we're missing for John brought to the table, yes, the way he phrases stuff, the way he like does a kind of a long drawn out thing and then like a more faster paced, more lyrics kind of jammed into a little phrase on top of that. I just really like but I like it better with him and Michelle than I did, honestly, with take him back Sunday, with him and Adam, and that's just preference, but I just I think it stands out a little bit more when it's a guy and girl. Maybe that's unfair. Okay, let's go to track for another word for desperate, because they were. What are your thoughts on another word for desperate? Really like this one too, and I feel like the last song is so good it had to have been hard to follow it up so good. Good on them, because this is this pretty rock and song too. I love how hard the drums are playing on that clip that you just played right there, like it's kind of a it's kind of like a slow song, but he's just beating the crap out of his drums. Yeah, but they're too compressed. Again, YEP, they're. That's not his fault, Yep it but and then, and then they're. Their harmonies are wonderful and and John's got some great lyrics on this one. So business like as usual. I tend to like the versus better on this one than the chorus, but I still like it Chris, what your thoughts? Yep, I like the versus better for sure, but yeah, it is a great one. Two, three, four, punch. I was thinking start to show off with these four just right in a row, but then I was like on, he can't play Prom night like right away, and everybody's gonna be like, Oh, that's I don't know, but it would be. It would be good. Okay, so after the they will, they will, they will part where trails off. I tried really hard to count with a Metrodome. It feels like they go, they speed, change the tempo. They do. Yeah, they do. Okay, okay, on purpose. Yeah, I was like, am I going crazy? Like yeah, no, no, it sounds it sounds okay, I just eat's just not something you do very often. It's not. It's almost like a subtle change to the tempo, but definitely, no, definitely bumps up. Yah, yeah, it shall we get a drag five. Do you have anything else? On another word for desperate? Now it's good. What is another word for desperate? They wouldn't have one. HMM, not without typing it into my computer right. None, yeah, I'm not the sorestcom okay, we'll pull that up. Okay, let's go to track five. Then, mistakes we knew we were making. Not even doing the fade out on that one. We just went right to the end of the song. Chris, were your thoughts on it? This song is freaking magic. I love it, I love it, I love it, I love it. I just that clip you play was great. The the the choir of Michelle's. It sounds like magic. It's a great song and a pop song man, just the pop, pop, pop song, which incredible when you think he's the guitar player from taking B Sundays. The dudes got range. What can I say? Love this too, Kyle thoughts.

I mean, I agree, Wonderful Song, but I what I'm sitting here thinking. I'm thinking this live and out loud. I think what he does is like the bridges that he writes could be taking back Sunday bridges and everything else is different. He's really good at bridges. Yeah, because like it, and maybe that is some another element that he brought to taking back Sunday, and that's why I'm calling them taking by Sunday bridges. But like the second song on this record, this song for sure like that. That freaking bridge just rocks and the chorus is great, but it's almost nothing like that bridge. It's just such a nice surprise. So, yeah, great, Great Song, and and and I and, like my birthday buddy, I like hearing Michelle's voice. So good one. Yeah, I mean that at she's cute. Yeah, curly Brown hair, which, I mean, we all know is my thing. And and then she sings and you're like, oh my gosh, she's actually she's a talented musician. She sings well. I like her voice, especially with her brother. They sound great together. I definitely had a major crush on her in two thousand and four without a doubt. Yeah, I really like this track. I mean it's just it's really good. The bridge, as I mentioned, I just really good, and the dueling vocal again, is like I like that element of the two different parts on top of each other. And, like I said, I almost like it more when it's a guy and girl. Yeah, as opposed to it was. I love it on taking back sunny too. I'm not like, I really like that element. I think that's actually what made taking back Sunday unique compared to a lot of other bands. There were a lot of people doing the like one guy screaming in the background while someone else is singing. But like that was not what taking back Sunday was doing. It was a dueling vocal kind of thing, but you could get the two people confused, like who was singing because there's two guys. You don't do that with a guy and girl. You just like it separates the parts a little bit more. It makes it where you can have more complicated vocal parts on top of each other. John Stuff on that first taking back Sunday record was sometimes getting like so obscured you had to read the lyrics to know what he was saying, and that's not happening here. So like I'll at least give the production value that that like I can understand what everyone's saying. Like the vocals. They did the right thing with for the most part on this. I have problems with some of the other stuff, but and I like I do think John's voice almost benefits from a let lower production budget because he gets that take that has the emotion in it without like trying to perfect it to death. I like it. That was another thing I was going to say is it's crazy because you mentioned on the last episode, the Dashboard episode, how much you enjoy want to. Dude just like goes for it. He does that all the time and he's not mastered it. So yeah, and I like it. I like it's so much more interesting than someone that just sounds perfect. I mean, I don't get me wrong, I like a love a really, really talented vocalist. This is ridiculous. We are clearly dad's by this next reference I'm going to say we were texting about the movie seeing to because we have children, and Chris and I both saw it last week and there's a song in it by the struts that sounds like a song kyle could have written, but I need to listen to it. Yeah, you need to. Is like a meeting in the theater. I was just like, this sounds like a kyle song. But so Tory Kelly, isn't that end like? And she's like phenomenal and flawless and I do appreciate listening to someone that's that good at what they do, but she probably can't craft a lyrical phrase quite as well as John Kan. So I don't know, I like, I like both things, but very rarely someone like that good and that perfect. I almost I kind of like the character that the John's voice has totally, and that's why he's one of my face. Let's go to dignity and money, keeping your job dominiference, I'd say, Daddy Carlo. I think I'm going to go you first, because I think you're going to mention that this has drama. Does it? Is this the song that you thought might have some connected drama? This is not it? Okay, this sounds like it's about totally kissed, about being stuck on victory, right, yes, yes, okay, yeah, well, I mean, okay, in fairness to you, Blake, this song probably is about that.

This, this I the drama I'm referring to is chapter three of the same drama, between taking back Sunday brand new and now they will have they will take part. But, okay, well, more to this one. But this feels like it's about victory. Well, yeah, I mean totally and and and I dude, so great song. I love them singing together at that at that preak, I mean free chorus. See, I don't know, front, Front half of the chorus. Yeah, I'm not quite sure. But when he's again, when he's going off at the end the I'm not low and I'm not low him, just screaming and going for it is freaking awesome. He's got such a cool voice. You you have mentioned this before. I don't know if you've mentioned it tonight or on this episode, but like, because you know, we do this at nighttime, but it like when you when you go for it like that, when you're screaming like that, you can't just do that over and over again in the studio and that's another thing that I think gives it that authentic feel and like there's that character because you you can't perfect what he's doing, even though like it's perfect and I love it. You just can't. A guy can't sing like that over and over again, although he's touring doing it all the time. I thing, I guess they so, maybe he'd, maybe he can't. I mean, okay, doubt. I can't tell you that over now. Yeah, no, for sure, I think they're. It's always about it's boggled my mind that people that like seeing with that level of kind of grit and like Steven Tyler from Herrowsmith, it's like how's that? I mean you have to have some sort of vocal training to be able to like do that night after night and not leave your voice every night and so I don't know John did any of that, but yeah, it's got a great character to love it. Chris, what are your thoughts? Dignity and money? I definitely picked up on the on the record label thing as well. That's what it feels like to me. I'm looking at the lyrics and there's nothing that's just like so obviously that that's what it's about, but that's what it feels like it's about to me. Is Just we've got so many good songs on these records that we talked about that are clearly jabs at labels that are making mad, which is it's might be a great move for ladies and we know he's scooped in drama. You know he took the he took this as an option. He didn't. He didn't let them go somewhere else. So you know, they could be pissed about it. Yeah, also just need to point out the what Guitar Player, Blake helped me. What is that? The last quart of the course, it's like whither? Like is that a minor like where youry on the east ring and it's like no, that's on it. That's it's as the ninth or seventh or something like that or courseus. I don't know. I didn't pay enough attention to the chords. But well, I love it when I love it when all of this costell did it, love it when the xpx did it, and I like it this real light run does it's in the cool way. To end of quote, of course. And love that classic, classic scream at the end of the song. Yeah, I think the pre chorus is maybe better than I really like this song, but the precurse is so good the whole you can get convinced, we can get convisnessed and with her singing, I love the way she sings that line. It's really good precurse. Precourses are underrated, and and I'm not by not by these three dudes. No, no, we're all about the precurse. In the bridge is bring it on course, John, like the jumps. It's a good course too. I just it's a great precurse for sure. Okay, let's go to your name here, parentheses, sunrise highway. Well, maybe that's true. So first off, as anyone Google maps this to figure out if they can find that house. Did you do it, Chris? I can find the house. I found the highway. Okay, Kyle did you? Well, I have something to say. Okay, tell us, please, k. This is chapter three. Okay, this is John. That is how you get to John's House, and this is John Telling Jesse just come over. I miss you. Like done having beef. He wants it to be over. He said he it. His statement was this was about I miss my best friend. Just come over. Well, that kind of so sweet. How warm is your heart right now? Guys, I never, I mean this is again me not picking up on lyrics and stuff like that. I never would really give directions. Well, I know he's even directions to a house. I never thought it was about Jesse from Braden do, though. Yeah, come on over. It's a trill. All Jones friends are here kick his foot, like know,...

...so like, because they were best friends. He like, he would know right, like that would that would only mean something to him. And also, I think it's cool, when you know that, to go through and see the second verse, in Particular Your Name and lights. It was only a matter of time. Your name in parentheses. No, you can't see because after this mess, I guess you bet that I'd lapse before you do. Like, he's I mean, it's he's like saying, you know, nice things about his friend. Well, kind of Nice things, but this is nice. I just getting a car wreck. Yeah, yeah, and yeah, and die. Yeah, that this is definitely I think that he had more to apologize for potentially lyric wising. Yeah, then Jesse did, because really, Jesse just stole one of his lyrics, right, I mean that's essentially what the yeah. Well, I mean Gosh, that's I like part three. I like that it wraps up in a nice we have closure. We have closure. I didn't even know we had a closure. Yeah, man, I'll also. Okay, so, because, okay, chapter three, closure, that's all really nice. I really like the song and I like how simple it is. It's just super straightforward. It's it's a nice piano driven pop song. It's good. I like it. Yeah, it's a it's a chill kind of baut filing. Chris, you have thoughts other than, you know, about directions to Jesse's house? That's really all the notes I had were about how the I found the highway on the map. I got kind of lost to it. That it's in Long Island. Yeah, I'm meant to. I'm meant to do that. Earlier I was like I should look and see if I can find this place that he's giving US directions to. I assumed it was his house, but then, now that I know we say about Jesse from brandnew, it just warms my heart that. Yeah, they buried the hatchet and then he eventually bears see. This is why I think John's a good guy. He also bearies the hatchet. They get back together, taking back Sunday eventually to he did hold a grudge. He's a solid dude. I just know it. I could be totally wrong with hey seems like a solid dude to me. I like them. He doesn't hold a grudge. He just momentarily wishes you were dead right, but don't we all in the moment when human, if we could ride a hit song in the moment of the emotion, we might say some things that we would rather not be permanent records, but we get great songs out of it. So kind of like cool with it. I feel like sounds bad to wish drama on people, but if we get good songs out of benefit with it, we benefit pretty greatly from it. Okay, well, I've learned now two things on this podcast tonight, so I'm pretty excited about how much I'm learning. Let's go to track eight, Michelle's first track on the record, which is tool sheds and hot tubs. Kyle, you first thoughts on the track eight, so I'm glad you. I'm glad you let me speak first, because I may not have had the courage to say that this is this is a weird one for me. This is a freaking weird song in the middle of this record, at the end of the rights record, like I am still confused by it, like the freaking the production choices, the the lazy claps at the beginning of this song, like, what the heck is going on? What? Why would you eat? Like Hey, can someone get in this booth and act? ACT Like you're at a dance party and like you have no rhythm and you're having the least amount of fun that you possibly can? That's how I'd like you to clap to this song. freaking weird and okay, so, even with all of Oh, also like this song. It's weird to me that this comes out in an era even close to the cardigans. This wouldn't be on a Cardigans d side like this is. This is the worst Cardigan Song I've ever heard. And all that being said, the chorus itself I really like, but what the F is everything else they've laid around it? Like this is a weird song, dude, the freaking circus? Yeah, man, it's a mad house. Okay, yeah, here's what's weird. I like the song, but it is out of left field for this record. Weird, dude, it is not. It doesn't match the rest of the record at all, although I when I think about the song, I'm like, okay, I...

...like the versus, I like the courses, I just don't like the production at I sue. I really like the chorus on it. I really forgote in is real bad. But like it's like they went this electronic route, dancy route, kind when none of the rest of the record has any element of that at all. And that's the weird part to me. It's like if they just would have rearranged the song, I think it would have been a better fit. But I like it. I like the song. Did you notice the claps? Yeah, no, I mean I it's toots. It's about. Here's what the problem is. When you try to blend something that's like electronic ish, that's basically perfect on an album where, for the most part, you don't have that level of production quality for the other stuff. Yeah, and you try to blend real claps in with like the fake ones, and I don't know, it just doesn't it doesn't always work. It sounds like it's two things that aren't blending well together, and to me that's kind of what's happening here. But to me I blame it all on production and not on like bad production. Like I said, I think the song would even potentially fit on this record if they just would have done something different instrumentally with it, reave or or even mixed it in a normal way like it's. It is a weird song. It feels so weird. Or what if they did the course and halftime? Yeah, yeah, like that could be a cool like way that, instead of doing the kind of clown beat in the background, which the circus. It's fine sometimes, it just doesn't work here. I would almost rather go halftime. I would like to rearrange this song. I'm like maybe that'll be the next fun logic music project I'll do, is try to like try to re Redo this, because I feel like it doesn't give Michelle affair shake. I feel like it becomes a thing where people go like, Oh, this is weird and sweeps keep seeing, please keep singing background. Yeah, but like, I like her voice, I like the song, I like most of the things about this like the real bones of it, or just like the production. Chris, yeah, do you feel the same way? Oh, yeah, no, I could. My only note was like, I'm not sure what the point of this song. Are The goal? Now, I'm not sure what the goal of this song. Yeah, gold the goal. That's the right way to places, because all was it. What's the goal? Yeah, we try to accomplish and it's weird because again, spoiler, we're going to say, like what's the worst track on the album? This is not the worst song on the record, like, but it's the it's the one that like, it's the one that like. Sorry, it's the one that it sticks out kind of like a sore thumb, though, do it doesn't fit the esthetic, the level of that freaking lead guitar part. We're we're, we're, we're wearing and where we really do love this record, guys, I really. This is one of those situations where I just desperately hope no one from this band listens this. Love you, guys, but we love you. Case you did. Okay, song, tool sheds and hot tobs. I mean it's clearly just a departure. Yeah, yeah, it kind of is. Why is it called that? Does it have that anywhere in the lyrics? I don't think it does, but never thought about that. I threw it all in there. They really did. All right. Let's go to track nine then, which is it's for the best. I know it's a little weird for me to kind of basically pick the Outra of the song, but Gosh, all those vocals together are so cool, especially because nate basically already has the range of a female, so for him and Michelle to be singing together, I love it. I mean I just think it's so good. Chris, what are your thoughts on it? Dude, I wrote down Basseline time because that bassline is freaking sweet and that there's that outro. I seriously could probably watch them, especially if nate was on stage. was I I could probably watch him just jam all night. It's said they can play this song for fifteen minutes and I'd be in the whole time. Yeah, Dude, I'm not like a fish fan or a whites for painting fan, but I'll be a jam band fan if this is this is what it's about. Yeah, I would watch them play this for forever. I don't remember if they did play this when I saw them live. I don't remember. I probably wasn't. Maybe I would have written on the set list. I've they would have had to. They had one album. What I solved that you have to play basically the whole thing if you're headlining a tor it is. It is really, really just so good and and I assume this is...

...how will ends up being in fun later on. So maybe they knew each other before. I don't know, but pretty cool. Kyle, what are your thoughts on it's for the best man. It it is. It is one of my favorite songs on this record. That part that you played, I completely get why. I agree with you, guys. I could listen to them jam on that. It like Sean's like, Hey, guys, I'm going to show off here and let him know. Just in case they didn't know, I want to make sure they know that I can play the Bass, because he tore that up my one of my favorite things about this song is the way that the it's like a nonconventional chorus and and and the end of the verse is is a Prechoruse, you know what I mean. The like the way that the verse flows right into that is never really stops. Now, yeah, the song never really stops. Yeah, it kind of just goes one piece into the next, which is kind of like some of my favorite songs do that, where you it really is like one in, like one unit, and you can't really separate verse from Chorus, from Bridge from outro. And this is definitely one of the songs and I love it. And Yeah, you're right, COO. Yeah, I just I really it's such a good song and I think that this is the other track that they clearly spent more time, production wise, on one hundred percent, because it sounds great, it does great and Im and the sparseness of the instrument instrumentation is so good. You got that drum kind of stuff going the whole time and the bassline are basically carrying most of it and for the most part it's just that piano playing those single notes kind of driving that other that other melody, which is another thing I love when like an instrument has a melody on top of what the the singers got going for the melody and they compliment each other. It's basically dueling vocals, but it's one thing's a piano and I love it. It's so good. I really can't find anything bad to say about this, this track at all. One of my favs. Okay, let's go to tracked in. Now it's done. I Chris Monia. Let's go to you, track Tim. What are your thoughts? I know it's lazy when you're kind of reviewing music to just be like, oh, this sounds like another band, but one of my favorite bands from the early is a band called two hundred and thirty eight and this song kind of reminded me of them. had kind of the vibes from from a two hundred and thirty eight song, which you really like. It I really like. Also, cool trick doing that first laid back chorus, keeping it chill, bringing a big later. And John Is John the League Guitar Player. They switched, they switched around. So you actually plays guitar? Yeah, they would switch. They like she played piano, I think most of the time live, but then they would switch and sometimes she would play guitar and he played piano. Okay, well, whoever, we slay it up. Whoever played the League guitar part on this. It's got some s lead guitar like Solo Vibes. So I said, hopefully it's John. So that my note. Elton John Nolan, you know, like it. You know, it's interesting you bring that up, the s thing, because really, if this okay, so, if this record was not on victory, would it in John had in John and Sean had not come from taking back Sunday, would anyone consider this alb memo? No, I don't. I mean lyrically maybe, but even then it's kind of a stretch because it's not. I just I feel like so much of what we call emo, yeah, genre, that is emo, was based on a label, Yep. By label I mean like the label bands were on yeah, and and sort of the proof in that is that we is this band. It's like limb back because they're on Doghouse, even though they're kind of like almost this all country kind of thing. You know, there's all these bands that like don't really fit at all in the genre, and then there's big bands that were on giant major labels and never on any like. It's like why do we not consider the killers emo? You know, it's like that's a good one. No, no, it's a it's a weird thing how that happens. But like this is one of those bands that like the first line of the wikipedia page is going to be like Strai let run as an emo band from Long Island and and you don't think anything of it. But there's really nothing about like that song that we just listen to a really most of this record. That to me is like, oh, that defines the genre. Taking back Sunday absolutely...

...did. I think regardless of what label taking back Sunday was on, we would have called that, oh, that's in the genre or dashboard professional. There are some bands that definitely like had that sound, but you mean world's even kind of one of them. It's kind of like what I'm what is it about? Like, you know, they're just such straight rock band and kind of my opinion, there's not a there's not a huge bit of daylight between like Tom Petty in but it's just it's an interesting thing because we talked about records on this show and it's it's funny because we're always like can we do that record? Is that an emo record? I don't know, it's just this one fits because it was on victory essentially, and it was John from taking back Sunday. But but really it's more poppy in her in especially with her. You know, there's nothing very ansty about her or her voice or anything. It's pretty. Yeah, anyway, that's just my tangent about why. Why do we call things emo and why do we not? Kyle, did we? Did you talk about this and all? Yet I free we didn't. I mean, I feel I feel the same way you guys do. I will say I think it's really weird when she sings background on the other songs. It's just such a nice blend. Their harmony is such a nice it adds so much of the songs. I think it is so weird that the two songs that she takes lead on, John's not really singing that much and and I miss them on the songs. So I do I feel you on that. But I mean also, I like this song just fine. I like it way better than the other one. Yeah, but I mean melody wise I like the other one better, but this one fits production wise way better. And that's my point on tool sheds and hot tubs. Is like the songs, not bad. It just like needed like hey, this doesn't quite fit. It feels like a random song that we threw in here, and I think they could have made it work. This one works fine as the second last song, which brings us to the last track, sympathy for the martyr. It's Carlot's goody first. What are your thoughts on the last track, sympathy for the martyr? freaking love it, dude, I mean you, it's it's hard to not hit me with the Bab Bada Da, da Dadas and I'm not going to feel it to my core. Like they just nail that. Also, I love me a song that the like you could play now and no matter who's listening to it, they're like, yeah, this is about this other but hole, it's not about me. No, I mean like everybody's the protagonist in this story when they listen to it. And and like I could see just the lyrics to this one are are fitting for, you know, current political climate. I feel like everyone could get into it and point their finger at the other side. So that's really that's who do we think this is about? Do we think this is about the other dudes and taking back Sunday? I'm I mean purely speculating. I I always thought it was about Adam. That's what it feels like. My very straight up yeah, well, at the tie the news thing, I thought maybe I have one he used to do. Yeah, he used to do it with the microphone, and that's exactly why I thought that. That's a good point. I do love the line alongery. List of problems doesn't make you interesting. That's maybe the best insult he's written in a lyric. Well, and I wrote down never getting help doesn't make you brave. that. Yep, Guy didn't the same vein. So I'll see. Yeah, I I, I do. And it's a good ending track. I mean it definitely has it's like, oh, that's raw, but yeah, the Botas and the kind of fade out and into kind of chaos at the end of the track is pretty cool. But production wise, that delay on the vocal is atrocious and shouldn't have been allowed. It's like got way too much, like they didn't do it's like they didn't do a low pass or something like. You know, normally you cut those high frequencies out so we don't hear the s's repeating over and over again in someone saying a lyric it's just it really bugs me at the early part of this song. It's way too wet, and that's my complaint. Another production complaint. But but really I'm dogging on the production. But really, for the most part...

...now that I know is the same guys that cohede record. Like Bravo, because it's quite a bit better than that one was. Yeah, but here's the here's the conundrum on that though, like I told you that they said that they that they did not think that they needed much production and so they didn't allow them to produce that much. So, like, who do we blame? Who Do we praise? That's a good question. Without being able to be there and know for sure, it's kind of impossible. No, I mean you guys know my opinion. You shouldn't self completely self produce anything. Ever, you need someone as a consultant, to at least be able to tell you, like that's a bad idea or it needs this, or you need to rethink that bridge or what. You need someone, even if they're not there in the studio with you. I mean, like that's essentially what Rick Rubin does have the time now. You just shows up every once a while and and shapes the songs or whatever right, and so it's really valuable and I don't know what role I would imagine with the budgets that most indie labels were doing, most most producers were going like had that sound to you? And then, Oh, you like moving on, Oh yeah, and then moving on. If they said because they weren't getting paid hourly, probably they were getting like that budget and it was you got to get it done, and that can be it's not a great way to do it. You really want someone that's be like that's not the take, do it again, or or if that's not the tank, trying home tonight, you can come back to mow fresh like yeah, but but in this budget it's like we only have the studio for one more day, so that this yeah, that's we're going to get. The thing is, I don't feel like it's the takes that are bad. I don't feel like any of the performances are bad. It's like it's sound, it's like the it's the compressor on the snare, which means you just didn't leave enough. It's really compression, compression on the entire drum sets. It's like you didn't spend enough time getting those sounds and then doing it, which is to me crazy back then because like almost everyone sat down like got a drum sound and then use that drum sound for the entire record. To when you're on a low budget, that's what you do. You like get the drum sounds and you might switch out the snare between songs, but that's it. You know, you're not like you're not setting up the drums in a different studio with a different room sound. I mean it's like you're setting up and running through all the drum tracks at once, and so that's why, to me, it's a little bit like he really should have but maybe that was it. Maybe they'd like record of these drums demo wise and they thought they were good enough and they didn't get a chance to record them. I don't know, but it does I really like this record enough that I wish. I wish it just had a little bit better production, because I think it would be like it's still kind of one of my favorites from this air but it would definitely elevate it a little bit if I like loved the snare sound. But maybe that's kind of rough on me. Any any other thoughts on the last track fellows. Okay, let's go to lasting impressions. Do you guys think it holds up? Whoever wants to go first? I do. I'm just basing that on my own like gut check, which was that I was pleasantly surprised for listening to it. I was like, Oh man, like like seeing an old friend. You know, that's that sort of felt like to me. So you guys have made some really like good observations about the production. That part doesn't help its case, but the songs, the bones of the songs and the spirit of the songs to me makes it hold up. Yeah, Kyle, what are your thoughts? Feel like? I I mean, I completely agree. And that's the thing. Like, I can sit here and talk about where the where the freaking lead guitar is in the mix. That drives me crazy, or the way that it sounds or the way that the snare sounds. I could talk about that all night long, and we kind of did. But the truth is, these guys right really good songs, they're really good at what they do and it it outshines those things, even though they bug the crap out of me. Now. Yeah, it it outshines those things. I love this record. I think in the past we've mentioned this, the vinyl standard. You know, I don't think any of US buy a vinyl record that we don't love. I got this bad boy on vinyl. I love it. It's it's a great record. I think it stands the test of time. But Man, I do wish, I wish that we could build a time machine and maybe change some of those things, like we could have pulled together five grand more so just Belize, Hey, just spend a little more time on the drums, sounds and some of this kind of stuff. Yeah, because I think, like my complaints about the production aside, the songs are great, like I just it solidified that John was the part of taking back so yet that I really loved and I think he was the real thing that was making that special. I'm not saying tag back an he was bad. Without him they were fine and they went on to be I mean their second record was very successful. I mean, I get it. Legitimizes him, though. This record does, you know, like it does and so and I wish that we honestly, like I'm a little bum...

...that we don't get a lot more from him. I mean I we do get some stuff, but like the next stray light record is pretty disappointing in my opinion. And Yeah, spoiler for the next thing. And I do feel like this ramped it up and then I just it kind of fell off because the next trail iron record wasn't great. But anyway, that kind of brings the next question. Is it their best album? I think so, but yeah, what do you guys think? Yeah, I mean, without without a doubt, it is. I think it's great. So that one's pretty easy. Is it their most important? And that's also kind of silly because it's really there only one that has successfully. Their next one doesn't sell well, I don't think, and it doesn't do great. Done really have any singles to speak of that were, you know, Existentialism Problem Night was a pretty big everyone could I heard that song and liked it. Kind of launched them a little bit. But yeah, I think that basically this was kind of it feels. I know they did make more records, but it doesn't I've never talked to anyone that like prefers their other albums. No, so I don't know what how I see that they put out a they put out a live record this year. Have you listened to it? I have not, but I did see that they you know, they did some touring and stuff like that. So I would, yes, totally go see them if they came anywhere near here. Yeah, they put out a live record in two thousand and twenty one. I said this year, last year, right, so close enough. We're only like one weekendto this year, so that works for me. Okay, let's go to awards. Desert Island songs. Two or three of your favorites? Going to you first, Chris, towards the favorites, I'm going to go with three. That's fine, perfect ending Prom night and mistakes we knew we were making. Oh, I like it, Kyle. What about you? I gotta go exceistentialism on Prom night. I have to go with it's for the best and I think. I think I go mistakes we knew we were making. I think I'm those three. Two. I think I'm matching up with you, Kyle. I also had tension in the terror in there in the running, but I think that I think prom night mistakes and it's for the best or the three. Just like Gott I knocked it out of the park with the three. Nailed it. Plus the productions a little better on those three too than tension and tear. So I think those are my three too. I think we matched up. They're pretty well. But really it's a great record and they did a good job with it and I I just want to I would love them to do another one. Like I just feel like I want more John Nolan. Yeah, give us some more, which she does kind of some solo stuff now and she had another project after this. I forget the name of it was a little more folky. Anyway, I'll put in the show notes or whatever. What about? Nobody's perfect. I think we're going to know what what Kyle's choice is. Kyle tool sheds man the tool sheds. Okay, yeah, takes that years. Is that you too, Chris dull yeah, totally, what is what is happening there? Yeah, again, it's I'm conflicted because I liked the song and I feel like the instrumentation in the production just is so out of left field that it doesn't fit very well in the album. But I like the song, so I'm toured. But I think that's got to be it, because the rest of it all feels pretty cohesive. And then that's just kind of said out of left field. I'm about growing out of shower. What's the song? You didn't like it first, but now love Kyle, or at least like more than you did. You know, maybe maybe the last track. I mean, I think I always liked it, but I think, you know, we all kind of mentioned listening to it now thinking it was about Adam. Right, I don't think that I was like totally caught up in the drama of everything that was going on then. I was definitely not. And so like for us to have done three podcasts now that kind of kind of cover some of that. Like I think I think that that song is better thinking about it being about Adam. And so, yeah, that one I'll give you. It's like our godfather trilogy. You need to go back and listen to taking back Sunday, brainew and this. No, not really. Yeah, I think that that's I think that's fair. I think that last tracks are like that a lot of times for me because they are, you know, by their nature a...

...little weirder and kind of this final thing and they're generally not the poppuliest song on the record or the catchiest or whatever, but I think that's why they grow on you. It's like you you start like really listening to those different layers and in the stuff that's going on, and it's like it gets more interesting overtime instead of just hitting you in the mouth the first time you listen to it. And so, yeah, kind of a lot of my favorite growing on a show where tracks are second to last or last songs on the record. So yeah, I think I agree with you, Chris. Do you have a growing on a shower? I mean for me now it's done, the second to last song. I don't think it really had any effect on me when I first listen to the record, but like going back to it, I think I really enjoyed that song all right. Sounds like the guitar solad. Just love it, love it all right. Well, that's it for us. Thanks for listening. Again, if you like what you here, consider giving us a glowing five star review. Be Glowing, you know, just write lots of superlative adjectives to describe your feelings about this podcast. You can also subscribe so that these episodes show up immediately on your devices. That helps us out too, and, as mentioned at the top of the PODCAST, if you go to finding Emoi podcom, you can sign up for our email list or you can just hit us up with your comments, disagreements or suggestions to our email which is infut finding emo podcom or you can hit us up on twitter at finding a little pod, instagram, facebook, all those things are all finding emo pod. That's it for us. We will catch you next time.

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