Finding Emo
Finding Emo

Episode 37 · 8 months ago

Ep037 - Paper Walls by Yellowcard

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

While Yellowcard admittedly had a slight downturn post Ocean Avenue with their 2006 album Lights and Sounds, they were back to being one of the best pop-punk bands of the 2000s with the quick follow up, Paper Walls. It's one of Blake's all time favorites, and his wife has zero interest in it. It's a real tragedy. 

Welcome to find Emo, our podcast where we discuss our favorite albums from the early odds and thereabouts. I am Blake Fisher and I'm joined by Chris Mouniane Kyle Simmons, and today we are checking out the two thousand and seven album from yellow card entitled paper walls. Thanks for joining us and listening to the PODCAST. We appreciate it. We love that you here. We would love for you to subscribe to the podcast so they show up automatically and we love if you rate the podcast on wherever you where have you go, listen to podcast. That just helps us out and so do it just out of the kindness of your heart, you know, be a be a pal. Yeah, buddy, yeah, be a buddy, be a buddy. So, yeah, we're talking about this yellow card album. That's our second yellow card album to talk about. I did the quote unquote research on this one because it's one of my favorite albums. So not a lot going on this one. We did Ocean Avenue and then after Ocean Avenue, yellow card came out with an album in two thousand and six called lights and sounds, which I think it's fair to say is the lesser of their albums and I think they even admit that it was kind of a it took quite the turn from Ocean Avenue to lights and sounds, which has a couple few great songs on it and then a lot of just like okay songs, if if I'm just giving the short version of what I think about that album. And so they release that in January two thousand and six and they announced their working on preproduction for this record by the fall of two thousand and six. So they don't even wait a year between the release of lights and sounds to realize, like maybe we need to do another album, because lights and sounds did not commercially or critically or really in any way perform the way ocean avenue did and it was kind of a weird, kind of Angsty, darker vibe on it that they even admitted as much that like, hey, we kind of maybe wanted a little too far. They they were quoted saying they didn't like regret it, but they felt like they needed to like try again, like they was a learning experience for them. I think they I've seen interviews where they talked about maybe they've gotten a little big for their bridges post Ocean Avenue and some other stuff like that, and it just it had a weird vibe to it. And maybe we'll do that record someday, because it would be interesting to talk about a record that we didn't like from a band that, for the most part, we like everything else. So yeah, they released this October or, sorry, July, seventeen two thousand and seven, so not even barely over a year after lights and sounds comes out. You know, basically you're talking about less than a twenty month turn around and still in capital records, although this is the last record they are on capital with, because is shortly after this album, by like two thousand and eight, they announced a sort of indefinite hiatus, which is so funny because did anyone use that term before? Blank any to where they the first indefinite hiatus people? I definitely googled the definition of that. One Bli one hundred and eighty two went on. I remember when they when they said that, and I was like, I'd never heard anyone saying definite highest, but then I feel like everyone did. Yeah, that's the new thing. It's like, I don't know if we're breaking up, we're just not going to do anything for a while, which, you know, maybe you do need a break sometimes. It's just funny. It's a great term for what a lot of it's probably didn't really put a label on before. That's like yeah, we're not, we're not breaking up forever, but we don't know how long it's going to be. Could be five years, could be five months. It's just funny because it seems like baby were breaking up forever. There were plenty of bands before that that like didn't put anything out for nine years at a time or something. They just didn't have to come out and announce that they weren't doing anything for nine years, but anyway. So they do announce an indefinite hiatus shortly after this, but then they're back a few years after that. So you know, this album pretty quick after lights and sounds, like I said, but like totally different than lights and sounds. It's definitely a little bit more in the vein of Ocean Avenue, with even a little bit more kind of Umph to it, more rock and roll to it. Even so. Yeah, capital records, which is, like said, their last one producer, Neil Avron, that they've done basically everything with. We've talked about Neil Avron and how his guitars are unmatched. I kind of feel like he's a like him and Benson. Are they guitar tone guys. They are gonna make those guitars crunch in a major way. And and yet that's really there's really almost no information about this. They recorded the whole thing. I mean, you know, like I said, they talked about preproduction in October two thousand and six. They start recording it in January two thousand and six. It's released by July. So they knew they needed to get into the record out pretty quick because...

...the one before didn't quite work, although the two singles from lights and sound were great and they had great videos and I did really like them, but then the rest of the at the record just kind of was like man, but I've but they came back with this one and it was kind of awesome. So let's talk about first impressions, when it came out and whatnot. We've obviously already heard of yellow card at this point as, as mentioned before, we did Ocean Avenue already on this podcast, so we don't need to talk about what we first thought about yellow card. But just maybe, since we didn't really talk about lights and sound. Maybe talk about lights and sound and then this record, if you know, briefly, if you want to mention any thoughts that you had about lights and sound. Let's go to kyle first, though. So I find it so strange that they came out so close together because I have no recollection of that. Like in my mind, ages passed between lights and sound, sounds and this record. Like it's almost like I thought they weren't going to be a bank in my mind, in my memory, I thought they weren't going to be a band anymore or whatever, and then they got back to their roots a few years later. So hearing that that this came out like a year later is kind of blown my mind right now. But lights and sounds and did it. Just didn't dig it that much. I real and I don't know anyone that is like try to convince me to like it. Does that make sense? Like no one's really. No, you really need to get and I do give it other I I listen to it again this week and it just doesn't hit the same I want to like it, I do do. I've tried multiple times and and I just don't like it that much. I don't I don't hate it, but in comparison to their other works, it's just why listen to that record when I can listen to any other yellow card record? is how I feel. But my first impression of this was, yeah, that's the stuff I like, you know. Yeah, there it is. Yeah, that that's the good stuff, and so I was excited that they were putting out something a little you know, it's not that it's closer to ocean avenue either, it's just I just think they're better songs. Well, and it is more like well, we'll talk more about that, I guess, as we go on, but I mean it is it's more like Ocean Avenue in the sense that it like it was better songs and it had the vibe of it is different. It's like it's got that like lights and sound. They kind of drop down almost like too much. Got To kind of weird with it. And Yeah, and this has the more normal yellow cards sound. Yeah, it's like a yellow card record and it's in and it is. As you mentioned before, the guitars were huge, so big fan right away of this record and probably probably even more hyped at the time because I really did not like lights and sounds and so it was like, Oh, thank God, this is going to be a great yellow cart record. So, Chris, what were your thoughts of this period of time and and whatnot? Spot on with Kyle. Lights and sounds just kind of bummed me out. It was not great. Yeah, for US keep in mind to like, yellow card was a band that I adored. I mean, yeah, I mailed them a letter to get a sticker, like it's their address in Florida, like I listen to them from the MP threecom days. Like I was obsessed with that band. So I felt, I think, some acute disappointment with lights and sounds. So I don't remember this album making that big an impression on me at the time it came out. And and I'm also with Kyle and that I don't remember coming out this quickly, that quickly after lights and sound. Yeah, it seems like an attorney to meet. Yeah, I was really shocked when I looked at when I was like this can this timeline cannot be right. But because it did feel like a much longer time, I agree. Maybe we were just younger in a year and a half felt like a lot more time than it does now. Now a year and a half goes by and I'm like, oh my gosh, that was a capital pushing hard, like it was it. I'm sure we knew it was coming out. Sure I knew it was coming out. Maybe I just didn't care as much because I was so disappointed from the last record. There's a lot of good music out in two thousand and six, two thousand and seven, you know. Yeah, it's weird. Okay. So I thought, here's the other thing. I was trying to trace back, like when did I did I maybe get this album? Not when it came out, but I know for sure I bought this album when I lived at my Condo, which I only live in that condo two thousand and seven to basically the very beginning of two thousand and nine. So like at the at the latest, I got this in two thousand and eight, like you know. So I may have been a little bit late on it, but I don't know I was. I think I had it in two thousand and seven. I'm pretty sure I got it, maybe not the week it came out, because I don't think I knew they came out with a new record until it like came on,...

...you know whatever something, and I saw I was like, Oh, I didn't know they came out with a new one because unfortunately, I kind of like lights and sound was so disappointing. I wasn't like looking for the next yellow card record. I thought they had just like abandoned all the things that I liked about them as a band, which bum me out because I was with you, Chris, I really liked them. But this one definitely like redeemed it. I was like all back in, because you can make a bad record, I mean, and people do. It just suck to like follow up the success that Ocean Avenue was with a bummer of a record, because I feel like it really took the wind out of their sales as a band and you just want to kind of go back and like, as we've talked about on this podcast, I love bands that I love being successful and you just want to almost go back in time and be like don't make that record please, like if they would have made this record after Ocean Avenue. And there's also a three year gap between Ocean Avenue and lights and sounds even, which is not crazy, but I would think that for as big as Ocean Avenue was, you'd want to like try to make something out get a record in by two years after that, two thousand and five instead of two thousand and six. Not to be fair, it was January two thousand and six. So they barely didn't make that two thousand and five things. So I mean it wasn't quite wasn't really three years between. It sounds like a lot of years. Sounds like more about months. Yeah, but yeah, just more months. And so you know, it's just it is an interesting kind of case study of you follow up a really successful record with something that sounds is too far of a departure of what people came to you and liked about you. And and then, but I feel like then they like very quickly redeem themselves on this one. And you're right, Kyle. I think the songs are just better on it. I think that that's it's mostly what it is. Well, what's weird is didn't they they actually lost a core member on this record. Right, Oh, well, so they lost him before that said. They Lost Ben Harper. That's a good, good point on that. So they lost been, the guitarist, actually before lights and sounds. Okay, so, okay, so they'd already lost him pre lights and sounds, and I think guy with the label, right, he had. Yes, been did the lobster, lobster lobster's yea and no, no, lobsters what they were on. It wasn't love. Yeah, yeah, it was a it was a pretty legitimate label. Yeah, I know what it was. Look that up, Chris Wall I'll look it happened. I got it was medic. No, we did see bit harbor in traffic and La and our bassist got out of the car and went and handed of a CD, but nothing came of it. Obviously, what point? It's not lost. Takeover, takeover, takeover, take a lobster was what they were on before capital. And then, yeah, takeover was what Ben went and ran and so yeah, so they lost been before lights and sound and but replaced him with a fine guitarist. So they did not lack in the guitar category, for sure. So they this is the second one under their belt with with the this lineup, and I think they I think they think they did. It's weird to say, even though I don't love lights and sounds, I think they were still getting better as a band, even though they had a new guitars. For that red heard like there's some really cool stuff on it. Sometimes where you can buy. Oh, this is I can see they're evolving as a banning, getting better. It just wasn't maybe quite executed perfectly. But but this one I feel like they're all they're tight, they're all in on this stuff. Kind of good. Yeah, yeah, and so, yeah, for me it was just like a return to a band that I had really loved and then kind of disappointed me. And what sucks about when a bands like that, I want to say young, because really they've got one major label album under their belt and then they and then so half their catalog I don't like. Kind of at that point, you know how I mean, like that's a lot harder to deal with than like, you know, like wheezers are great example of a band that, like, they put out a record I love and then they put out a record I hate. But like they've put out twenty records. So even when you take the good with the bad, they're still like more there's a lot of good still. But when it's like you got two records and one of them I don't really like, that kind of sucks. So this one brings me full back into the yellow card fold and and fortunately they make great records from then on out, even though they take a little hiatus in the middle there, although their high this wasn't that much longer than the gap between the other albums. It was just a couple years that they took off. I guess it was three ish, but so yeah, I think they I'm glad they came back to it. I'm glad they didn't fizzle out or something like that, as so many bands sometimes do in that situation and where you are on top of the world and then make an album that takes you down a...

...peg. I'm glad they got back in the studio and got back to writing and made this record quickly. Glad they bounced back. Yeah, I'm glad they bounce back because I think that Ryan key specifically is a fantastic songwriter and it would the world. It would be. I mean I think I'm at least my catalog would be thin if he had just like hung it up or something. So I'm glad he persisted through the little rough patch and continue to make some good records. So yeah, there's not a lot to talk about on the on the grand scheme of things, I said, there was not a lot of information on recordings that they've kind of work with Neil Ivron on all their records. So there's nothing that interested production wise as far as anything goes, and there's not a lot of information on the Internet about it either. So so that's kind of what I know about it. So I guess we can just jump right into track by track, if that works for for you all. So immediately, right off the bat, I feel like we're greeted with, you know, lights and sounds. Started with kind of a little or kestral thing and then a pretty cool second like real intro track. But I feel like this one is a great inter track. So let's go to the takedown. Here we go. I long we're back. Baby, Chris is Goodie. First thoughts on the takedown. Dude, is this one of the like, I don't know if there's a better word than balls. Is this is the battlesiest yellow card song. It is one of them. Right, it's one of them for sure. Yeah, it is fast and I mean there's like some heavy metal influence in the guitar. Yes, so like and Avron's like tone. It's like almost I feel like you'd take that tone and put it on a metal album. It would work, but it's works here too. And then, of course, one of the great great not talked about. But what are the great punk drummers of this era? LG, LP, LP. Sorry, yeah, just destroys on this song and all the songs. I will talk about him a lot on this podcast. But yes, great into song. Gosh, love it. Yeah, they I feel like they always do a great first track, but this, this one. Really you're like, okay, like we are not. We're like an apology to her. Yeah, it could have is. I mean it really it feels a sorry about the things we said on the last album. Sorry with the last one. Yeah, freaking rocks. Kyle thoughts on it. Yeah, LP's just freaking machine gun in that snare and that guitar tone. Also, I really, I really like the line. How did I end up like this, the Chosen One, your greatest takedown? Yeah, I mean that's that's some good lyricism. Awesome Song, and I think, I think my first thought was like, I'm listening. Yes, you have my attention, let's get another track in. I mean, Great Song, but and when do we did this? Yeah, I remember, I know what you did last time. Yeah, because the first better before. Yeah, what is technically the second track on lights and sounds. I mean it rocks to and then it quickly falls off. Yep, is it lights and sounds? That is the Inter track? I forget. Yeah, I think it is. Yeah, and I mean I know it has the orchestra kind of thing before hand on that one. But yeah, you're right, and I remember feeling the same way kyle, being like okay, all right, I'm into this, but like being like, but let's see what happened, only to mystery and stuff. I was very cautiously optimistic at this point, because it is yeah, you know, I've been burned a little bit. I do think that you mentioned the lyrics and I think it's a good thing to bring up that. Like I think he becomes a significantly better lyricist on this record, and some of that is because I felt like he a brow. Well, no, no, I don't think it's even that. I think it's that, like, you know, admittedly, it seems like he didn't have like some it's not like Tom Petty where he had this father that didn't love him or something like that. You know, it's like he didn't have some bad family or some bat like super bad experiences where it's like he was writing these songs about girls and stuff like that and none of it was very and lights and sounds. He went all in on the like anti war stuff, which is kind of like you wasn't quite at that point where you could write those songs that he wasn't doing, like we talked about green day on the last album. Yeah, the lastt episode. It's like he...

...didn't quite have that tongue, that kind of sharp tongue that billy joe had, but he's trying to to it. It just it never it never worked for me when he tried to write that kind of song. It seemed it seemed to a natural to me. But like this one, I feel like he went through a little adversity, just like being with the band and been leaving the band and he had some more interesting things, I think, to write about on this record and I think you hear a little snippets of it in that line that you mentioned. Kyle is a good example of that. And so I think you just got better. I mean, yeah, as you as you get more mature, and I mean how old is he at this point? Is He twenty five? Even when the sound? Yeah, if that so, yeah, still still honing the craft of of that. But yeah, everything about it is firing on all cylinders. Who got the violin, which again, I think is always awesome. How they get that in the mix right? And it's not a gimmick, because everything about punk art, punk rock with a violin sounds like it's going to be a gimmicky thing, but they do it so well. It's super unique and this. Yeah, and you're right, LP's just owning it. He's so good. He is one of the best drummers from that time and I feel like doesn't get enough credit. Yeah, I don't know why. I've no idea why. I maybe it's just because the the band was so great and his drumming never like did the talking. Like it's like covertly awesome, but it's not in your faith like Barker's styles. A little more in your face awesome, is a little more back in the mix awesome. I don't know. And that's they might have been. They might have been one of the mean Kyle, you. I mean, first of all, you and Chris are way more into punk rock than that I was. I like it a lot, but I mean you guys are in into a lot of bands that even more obscure and stuff like that. I mean there are really talent. There are group of really really talented musicians. Like it's not just LP, I mean it's like the no guitars. I mean Ben Harper could tread to but like Ryan mindez is just he's going into town, Yep, on this record on Guitar Solos and stuff, and then, you know, obviously you got the violin. It's not just like he's not playing easy stuff either, and so they're all shredding and like you can tell that metal kind of influence. But I mean they're really good musicians for playing pop punk, in my opinion, and they shine on this one. Well, let's go track to fighting. Here we go, right, and it wasn't you with me the change. Now I gotta go in alone that I will never damn up, never give up. Okay, but I know how to lie. You were all that I had. You were delicate, fine, God, lost in the back of my mind and I can never get back. I never got it's in the fade out there. But I love that Little Drum Party does, like where he's alternating from the snare to the high hat and stuff. Anyway, coyle water thoughts on track to fighting. So I know a lot of times we talked about how stupid it is for people to want, you know, a repeat of the record that they love, that they want a band to stay the same. But this is this is a very ocean avenue song. And and so before I said the first song, you know, had piqued my interest, but at this point I'm like, they're back, baby, you know, like I, at least I'm pretty hopeful that they are. Love the song and also it's pretty. It's pretty rare for me to love a verse more than a chorus. And and I love the same note. I mean this, this versus killer. The like the rhythm of the vocals. Yeah, I love Yep, yeah, I agree. I had the same note that the courses are fine, like, you're right it this would fit on ocean avenue, but Gosh, theoll the I love the versus on this and they're like wordy and I like the rhythm of it. And Yeah, it's a cool, cool versus and again, good instrumentation. Chris, what are your thoughts on it? You have lit up the same way I was the name note. Guys, I was bananas for the verses to loved it all right. I literally wrote down the Verse Lyrics syncopatient with the drums. It sounds so perfect and effortless. And Plus I love it when you know those little songwriting tricks like how he starts with said, I'd move on and then the second verse he says said, I'm okay, I don't know. Yeah, I like that too. I love that. I love those little those little nods, you know, a little little ways to keep things creative and keep things interesting. I think they knew it too. I mean they end with half a verse. My Song Ends with the the said that I'd fight for the ones that I found, going to stay here for the you know, and so it basically is the verse at that point, which is I think they that's why they knew and they knew it was a good...

...one too. So okay, shall we go to shrink the world or do we have any other? SYNC? Sync to notes on on songs. We really don't talk about this before we get I think. I think we had all written down that it kicks, but yes, it does good. Second Song, as you I'm I'm even more optimistic at this point. Two tracks and I'm like, okay, we've done two good songs. Let's keep going and let's go to shrink the world in track three. Christ, it's good to you first on shrink the world so you can steal Kyle's notes of him stealing your note. Yeah, I don't quite on how to describe this. I don't know what you call it and drumming, as a drummer I should know. But when you kind of when you when you carry over, you'll do four on the floor, but you carry that Bass Drum note over, Oh to you know talking about? Yeah, he does that on the chorus. It sounds so great and I kept pretty down. Guitars so great, question mark, exclamation point. It's like I just couldn't like I couldn't get excited enough excitement about how how every song the guitar sounds so good. I you guys will have to tell me. Is this we have kind of the same tone for each song, right, but I mean it just keeps being spectacular. I don't know, is it? Is it enough to just say it surprises me every time like a new song and just yeah, they definitely like dimed the game on this stuff, which I like when they were there, not running it at for on a lot of this. No, no, I I imagine a lot of ear plugs being used it while they were recording. Yeah, now they sound so good. And I watched his I don't remember. If I don't remember, did when we did Ocean Avenue? Had he done his podcast with Jim AC and jet at that point? I don't remember if we talked about that or not. Anyway, his past through frequencies episode with Jim Adkins and he talks about how he was just always in this band with these guys that were like way better musicians than he was. He's like, and I'm a good musician, but like I'm right talking. Is Ryan talking, and he was just talking about how he would be, you know, he'd come up some guitar, you know, or something or whatever, but then like those other guys in the like Ryan mindes and like Sean and all these guys, were just really like, Oh, and then we could do this. And he was like it was like they were speaking a different language sometimes because they actually like we're really good one and let's do a key major, and so that's that's fun to be able to take your song. They're like Hey, I'm writing this, you know, and he's a good guitarist too. But he's like, I'm doing the rhythm stuff and then they're putting all this super flashy, awesome stuff on it, and he just always had the benefit of being around those people. One of the interesting things those because he was talking about how, you know, they're always doing extra string stuff sometimes. So it's like Ryan will arrange, not Ryan. Sean will would like arrange other strings and they'd bring other string players in. But they might be like want a tweak something, and they really it was like those people's brains don't work that way. If it's not on the page, they can't play it. He was like, and I'm so jealous of the fact that they can, like Schunker, like change something on the page and they can just look at it and play it. He was like, I just want that so bad, and then they're like a maze that I can write a song, because that doesn't make any sense to them. They're not creative in that sense, even though they're phenomenal musicians. I thought that was an interesting specifically in that band, since there are strings involved in the you know, string players that are that good and playing in studio sessions like that's what they do. They can like site read something the very first time and nail it. And it was just funny that they were both jealous of each other and they were like kind of they didn't understand how he'd understand how their brains works that way and they didn't understand how his brain worked. Like Hey, what if we change that to this, like in the moment like going, Oh, you know, it sound good if you hit this note here. Yeah, asleep. That's really interesting. And we've talked about this phenomenal with Michael Jackson before. To write where we're he kind of like he wasn't like a spectacular musician, but he would kind of give these ideas music. Yeah, you what to do, and so, yeah, it's maybe it's a better tool for songwriters to have to not be that great. So seems to work. Like I tend to lean that way for a lot of people. I think that a lot of them at least know how to dial it back, like they know how to go like okay, I can simplify this because it makes for the better song and stuff. But yeah, so it's a good song. I think we're three tracks and it's pretty good. Kyle. What your thoughts on it? I think it kicks, but I think the guitar shredding is at silent and you what do you guys said a...

...couple tracks back. Maybe maybe, Chris, it is it is kind of metally. You know, obviously they're they're inspired by metal guitars and it starts to show more on this record and and I like I like the starting on the low chorus on this one and I also really like it when when the melody like when you when you play around with melody and phrasing and you kind of break up the narrative a little bit. You know, if I could, then I'd shrink the world tonight, like I kind of dig that. You have to kind of pay attention to what's going on and I really like the melody to this course. Yeah, you mentioned metal. Yeah, this is the first trill Solo I've heard on a punk pop album for sure. Thirty two notes or whatever. It's pretty great. I'm into it. And so, yeah, three tracks and I'm like, okay, I think we're back. I think we're I'm feeling confident that the rest of this record's not going to fall off a cliff. Maybe at this point. I'm pretty sure they're not going to light and sound me right yeah, and and I wanted gas light and sound you. But yeah, it's so work that works. Yeah, it kind of did feel like that, like we got the rug pulled out from underneath this although it still had some pretty good songs on it. Anyway, let's go track for keeper, someone you think bad news. That was kyle. I Bet I can guess one of your notes, but I'm just gonna let you talk first and see what you see. What you said. I mean, I feel like I was already going to say it. It's a mixtape. Must I thought that might happen and keep talking. We'll see if you get I've yeah, I think I've got a couple notes that you were. Were you going to say where you are you? Were you thinking this is a sacred heart song? No, no, I was okay, just I was thinking you might mention that you like the line. I wish there were something inside me aside. Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, are you line? Yeah, I think I don't think that. I don't. I don't think that he was bad at lyrics ever, but I do think he's getting better and I think he gets better and better. And so yeah, there's there's some great lines on this record and it's a good ballad. You know, it's I mean is I guess. Is it a ballad? It's it's slower, not quiet, because it's a little more introspective. It except for that to keep you beside me part and I also wonder. I mean, he well, I mean we're not quite there yet, but I mean very clearly there's at least one song on this album that's about been leaving the band. There's no way. Yeah, totally. It's not about so. I mean I look at this song and I'm like, this could also be about been leaving the band. Like it's not necessarily romantic and anyway, I think that's interesting and it's like generic enough that it could be different things to different people. But yeah, a couple those lines are really good lines. That well, we inside me to keep you beside me. Is that could be like in a country song. We've talked about stuff like this before. We're like it's almost better when when it could be about a number of things. It's not necessarily romantic, but it totally could be romantic. It's better. It's like it reaches more people. You know, I agree. I think being a little vague is better than being totally on the nose all the time. I mean sometimes it works, but it's still interesting to me. Like when you look up any song and and the word meaning after it's like you know you'll have a bunch of different people that interpret stuff and unless you've got some like linked to an interview with the guy that wrote it about what's it's about, it's like it's just people spitballing what they think it might be about, and most of the time it ruins it. It does a lot of times. No, meet your heroes. Don't find out what songs really about. Sometimes I I have to know because if something so specific, like if if something seems like they're really talking about something specific, I do want to know. I'm like, what happened here? I just but for the most part I like not knowing. I'm with you and at the same time, sometimes when something is so specific on the nose, it's awesome. You guys know that the song dog days are over by Florence in the machine is about how she gave up eating hot dogs. No freaking away. Can you kidding me? Is that real? Are you having her day?...

You know? I have heard that that is true. Like I she stopped eating me. She's get shit and she wrote a song about giving up hot dogs. I'M gonna have to listen to that. I give because I don't believe you. I think you're making me Google something that's going to take me to like a Gotcha page, but you know got the domain with the top Google searge. But it sounds like a great chyle freak. Listen to it with that in mind. Hey, I've got I've got it. I've got one like that on this record to so when we get actually it's going to be the next track, but let's go to Chris First and get his thoughts on keeper. Keep her great song. The that lyric. I wish it would have stood out to me more, because you guys both talked about it, but the lyrical piece that stuck out to me the most is just the you know, how to kind of breaks down that course in the same way and he kind of changes it a little bit, and just the way he delivers that line. I should have told you everything. Just God hit's me right the guts man. Good. which can we talk about again? Ryan Super Power? Which is bridges? which that's the bridge? Yeah, it's he's also get it, bridges. I wrote Down Bridge Question Mark Because I was like, I guess that counts. It's yeah, I mean it's an iteration of the chorus. Yeah, because it is, but it's got it's kind of more like a b course maybe, but I mean it's kind of where the bridge would be. So, yeah, it's great and I think it is definitely his superpower is bridges. I would have put more bridges as clips on this one. But there's also just like so many good like Guitar Solos and versus, and I feel like this one was a one of those that's really hard to pick thirty seconds for a clip because really, some of these songs I'm like, well, but I want this part and I want the Intro, I want the outro. I like, yeah, they nailed it and I agree. It's like it's a little ballody. It's good fourth track spot, I feel like, and good tune overall and, like I said, I agree kyle. I think he's becoming a better lyricist in general because he's a little more vague, partially because, if I Gohan Avenue had less of that. I feel like Ocean Avenue was more you kind of new with the song. It's about probably. Yeah, where's this one's a little more vague on some of it and I think that makes stuff a little more accessible sometimes, although maybe I'm wrong. But okay, let's go to track five, which is light up the sky. We just side. All Right, Chris Monday, we're going to go to you first. We're your thoughts on light up the sky. Glad you pick that clip because the baseline change up right there on that chorus is a great, great, great move. Bass Players Unite, Kyle, I think bass players are the best. You know, I never have anything bad to say about you guys. Yeah, only good thing. Yeah, and then, dude, that sounds got kind of like a cool dance field the beginning, but then it gets all mellow and like introspective in the chorus. Ryan key man, he can like the you know, he really has a way of, you know, keeping things interesting, keeping things dynamic. So this is a good song, good choice for a single, I think. Maybe not the strongest single in the whole album, but a good choice. Reson, Kyle, what are your thoughts? I agree with my birthday buddy. It's a great song. I'm a little confused by the single pick on this one, but it is a good song. I do really like it, but I do. I would love to have known what the discussion was because I do feel like there are other Oh yeah, out of I agree, those better songs on the album. Completely agree with you. I just I just still dig the song. Yeah, I think I can see why they went with it, but that's exactly what my what I was thinking Blake was. But what I get it so terrible. But there's some there could have been some different, different choices. They're interesting. Pay. Okay, so I have a weird here's how I interpret this song and I know it's wrong. I'm not even wrong. He like, okay, so he wrote. He's got a couple songs where he writes basically like it's like a movie. I mean he like literally takes the move like how I go is just big fish in a song. So he's done that before. You know what movie this makes me think it's about. And it can't be because he this album came out before the movies came out, but it is. I think this is the dumbest thing you guys are going to think. It sounds like a bromance love song between Gordon and Batman from Dark Knight and Dark Knight Rises. The lyrics work so well with it and it couldn't possibly be because like, but you know how, like in Dark Knight Rises, he like Batman's over in the dark and he's like light it up and has Gordon Light Up that bat signal on the bridge or whatever...

...it likes. Is What it's about. This is what that's about, is I feel like. But I mean think, okay, think about this. The first the first verse. You're making a choice to live like this and all the noise, I am silence. We we already know how it instannight. You run in the dark through a firefight and I would explode just to save your life. I mean it sounds like and he even talks about putting on a disguise at one point. I mean there's all these like little lyrical reference which I, as a huge Batman Fan, like to think of as a Gordon and Batman Bromance Love Song, which I'd I don't. Obviously was probably not Ryan Key's goal in this, considering this came out before either one of those movies. I mean, I guess Batman begins is out of that point, but it wasn't quite developed. The thing where, like Jordan are Gordon takes the the you know, bullet in the second one. Spoiler alert. It's been thirteen years the dark knight came out. If you've not seen dark knight yet, you probably should. So that's what I feel like the song is about, which is my silly thing. So it feels a little bit like it feels a little bit like a sacred heart song for me. A little bit. Yeah, because of that. But but for a Batman movie. If Christopher Nolan would have put a Spiderman two style soundtrack to the Dark Knight, maybe this could have been on it. But that's not his style. So let's go ye, want to hit different with right rank. He saw in the middle of the yellow card songs, in the middle of beat ledgers performance. Yeah, that might not have worked. We were we were out of the soundtrack phase at that point. That was a kind of gap in that period of time. Okay, let's go to shadows and regrets. Kyle. Let's go to you first thoughts on shadows and regrets. Well, I think this is a sacred heart song. Okay, just personally, I could I can see John Dorian, you know, especially a video montage of him working after he lost the patient. Maybe Yep, after he lost the patient. Exactly. Yeah, I can hear that. I I really like it. And again I think, I think that he's getting better at writing songs and it's just it's just a good song. I mean, I I dig it. That's all I got. Allegedly this view from heaven and, Oh crap, was the other song, see me smiling, from the next record, are all about his buddy shad something that was in a band. He's a drummer. HMM. SHADS are Scott Shad is his name, and he was like his best friend that died in a car wreck, and that makes sense. But I mean as far as again we're talking about like songwriting progression, like I like the you from having a lot. It's a great song, but this is a better song about that grief. And then I think see me smiling is even better than this. Like so, I mean it's like this thing he keeps returning to. Obviously it's like a big deal in his life, as it would be, and the bridge of that on that next tune, that on that see me smiling, I mean just kills me every time. So I agree. I think he's getting better as these, as these go on, Chris, what your thoughts on shadows and regrets Gray Song? Who Does Acoustic with the violin better? I mean everyone tries to do it, but these guys, like you know, wrote the book on it. So, but one thing it stuck out to me on this song was how the drums come in on kind of a low key song. Once again, I'm not sure if this is ballot taire, if this is a ballad, but it's ballot territory. Yeah, it's a lament. Yes, im perfect, which is ballady, you know, but it's hard to make that interesting. Drum beat works so well in a low key. So also, you're right, pretty doesn't pretty good job of showing off his pipes on this. On me he's sits some, getting up there a little. It sounds great. Oh yeah, yeah, I never think of him as definitely think of him as a strong vocalist, but I never am like, Oh man, right, can't get sing, you know, like but I feel like this is really good job on the song he does I create. I agree with that. I think he's flexing a little bit for sure on some of those notes and I like it. I'm fine with that. Yeah, I mean I think you can definitely consider, you know, the sad song ballady. You know for sure? That's fine, I think. What is that? There's a great switch for John Foreman Line. Every lament is a love song. Like that's a pretty good that's yeah, that's a...

...solid, solid line. So so we'll give them that. Okay, let's go to track seven, which, oh my gosh, I like this one so much. I'm really excited about okay, here we go. Five becomes for I picked the outro for that one. For obvious reasons. I couldn't thirty seconds of this song was impossible. Chris, we're going to go to you first. We were all grinning like school girls. Well, yeah, clip was put, I mean forbidden. beat. What comes in and this, it's like this, this is it's almost like a tribute to the first album, like in a way, but but with like the skills and production and talent that they now have. You know, that's like it's like if it's almost like they took took that moment in time or like, okay, if we were to write a song from our first record, but but with all the things we have now, this is what it would sound like. It it sounds so great. There's also a phenomenal bridge rock breakdown thing that you were able to play. I mean, yeah, there's there's too many things everything about this song. It's been all there's a band that, Kyle, I don't know how. Are they affiliated with Craig's brother? Craig's brothers, like the poor Mandy Ryan know? Well, Ryan played for them. That's what it is. Yes, yes, Guitar. Yeah, and this song's also got some Craig's brother Craig's brothers in because the crags brother you're right, dude. Yeah, they're they're there. You should check that band out if you if you like yellow card, then that's a deep cut for you. Craig's brothers a good band. Yep. And if you don't want to waste your time with all of it, listen to homecoming, because they peeked with that song. There you got some really yeah, like it is the best Creig's brothers song. Good to know. Bop will put that in the show notes. Kyle, do you have thoughts on five becomes, for it is a freaking awesome song. It's such a cool concept and and also, like one of my favorite things about Ryan is in the way that he writes is I feel like sometimes people can be vulnerable and it doesn't read as authentic and are in like every time that he is vulnerable. I just think it's so cool, like writing a song about your band member that left. I mean probably, I probably relate to it because I was in a band, but I still think it's freaking cool. And also you talked about how he returns to these themes and one of my favorite songs that comes later on from yellow card is the sound of you and me and it's I mean I love how he'll write a song about anything that means something to him. And Yeah, I really like this one. One of my favorites on the record. This is one of my favorite songs ever period, not yellow card. It's definitely one of my favorite yeow card song. It's one of my favorite songs. I just love it a it is got an energy that is a mate. I love the start of the little clean guitar and that little intro and then everything comes in just on firing on all cylinders. That that Violin Hook Line is awesome. All of the guitar parts are awesome, especially that outro where it's just that it's two guitars and that bassline, just rocking, and then it goes up to that high one. I mean, I just love it. I love the harmonizing stuff, I love the lyrics. I Love I've never heard a song about a band member leaving. That like left me wrecked in a way. Yeah, I got love the line, Oh Gosh, where's the I mean there's and I still love like when you're all alone with a million laser eyes and think and think of me. We still hear me singing anymore. That's just great stuff. And then I love the remember the line never say die, I mean and you were the reason I survive. I just so good, great bridge everything. There's nothing bad in this song. It's just it's awesome. Chris and I went to their kind of farewell to her in Austin outside at where what was it at? Wasn't stubbs. It was out, I can't remember. It's on the east side. I can be sure. It's not a venue that that show would have been should have been at. It didn't fit. It was perfect for the show,...

...but I like that. It was like I gad it was weird. Yeah, weird, I can't remember. Was Anyway. And if they played this song and I mean it went crazy. I mean every you could tell like everyone loves this song. That was a they they they made a great set list for that kind of that farewell to her or whatever. Anyway, we were rocking out for sure to this one because it was a high energy. Do you guys know? Is the sound of you and me? Is Is it about Ben as well, or is it about Ryan? I don't know. I think it's about been and I think it's him kind of coming coming around to the other side of you know well, because they had at someone and they played together again after that. They did a few shows were been played with them again too, and so I don't know, I don't know who. I'm sure quick Google will search later will possibly. Yeah. So, yeah, it's an interesting thing. I like I said, I don't think I'd heard a song with about a band member leaving or something. And and yeah, I think people forget that that's a thing that happens all the time and it sucks sometimes it's not. It's not all, you know. You see how seriously like fans take it. I mean may be it's these are guys you are with all the time and I can see why that would be a thing like I said, he didn't. He didn't lack of talent after that. It's not like the band didn't have a good guitar in their next one. But you know, obviously they were buds. They they've been playing together for a long time at that point. Yeah, it's just a phenomenal song. I really can't I can't say enough that that thirty second clips not enough. If you haven't heard that full song, you need to go listen to it right now. Just pause this podcast, go over to that come back because yeah, rocks. It rocks my world and I think it will rock yours as well. So then we go to what are we track eight, now, track as afraid. Let's go, Chris Monie. Let's good. You first. What are your thoughts on track eight, afraid? This is probably the most pop friendly song, I think, on the record. It's a it's a great pop song. I think if it was a so fast, it could have been like a top forty like. Well, but why? I mean, this feels like a better single than then light of sky. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, that's fair. Yeah, no, I think so, absolutely great. Great, great chorus. Guitar sounds so good, the vert and and another another Ryan key moment where the verse, the verse is almost as good as the chorus. But there were is it just a little better? It's because, well, it's because the chorus, but it's a you know, it's single, Longbol and hopeful and yeah, what have been a good single? Chris, I mean Chris Kyle. Oh, sorry, let me go ahead. Chris. Why you talk good single? Yeah, it's pretty good. How about Kyle instead? Kylie, tell us your thoughts on afraid I agree. I like it better than light up the sky. It's a good single or station and it's in and I also agree it's a great verse. He's good at that. Yeah, I mean like, how many tracks are are we on eight now or at eight? Yeah, we're a little more and halfway through. got a a tracks in. I'm all in so far. Yeah, not been a bad one yet. I love the that Tremolo feedback that's happening on that verse. That maybe and it comes out. I just think that's a cool little production trick that I'm sure Neal Avron was like, Hey, let's try this out. That's where I think you get a little bit of his ear candy that he's really good at with them and taking I mean, I assume maybe it, maybe it's someone else's idea, but sure to sound like an engineer would have been like no, this will be cool. Yeah, it's good song and I think it. I think it could have been. I think it could have been a single, especially because, like I said, the versus are, I think, as good as the chorus and almost hooky in a way. But Hey, they didn't ask us. What do you know, which is weird. Maybe people should start asking us a what should our track order be? Yep, which, by the way, so far they're nailing it on this one. Are No complains about track order so far. They're doing a good job of changing the pace sometimes and but without losing us like in the weeds. And then people should also ask us what should be the...

...first single. I think we should start a consulting group that we just do that, okay, and and we'll make I do it for a small fee. Yeah, dozens of dollars, as what will make to won't buy ice cream. Okay, let's go to the next track, which is dateline. Parentheses. I am gone. You can find when you kyle's Goodie. First Dateline. What are your thoughts on? So, Morrison, I'm just kidding. So the the the very beginning of the clip that you played. I feel like that guitar tone is the beginning of a sound for them. Yes, like a new direction in particular. We get that on southern air and even developed further on lift. A sale like that's there. It just kind of has that sound to it. I'll tell you what that sound is in case you're curious. I know on that last record they did some like drops stuff. They were like way tuned down and I'm pretty sure that this is tuned down to that is definitely lower than drop d. yeah, that might be c sharp, but it's it's definitely lower and they have this cool like chunkiness. You're right, they kind of. They they start using a little bit more and I bet I'd have to, I could go figure it out, but I'm pretty sure this might be at least dropped a little bit lower than d. What like? It reminds me of in particular, what is the what was the single? Is it transmission home or something like that on the last record? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that guitar part. Oh, yeah, makes me think of that. So also it kicks. But yeah, they do. They do quite a bit of that incoming records like do some alternate tuning and lower tuning stuff, which is interesting because that's not really a thing. That is definitely more of a metal thing than it is at Pong thing, but it does fit nice and it also adds a little bit of space for that Violin to which is, I think, a benefit to it with them is that the guitars get just a little bit lower. Yeah, I'm into the sound. You're right, I didn't think of that, but this is kind of the start of that somewhat of a signature guitar sound, will call it again. I don't know if that's all them, if that's Neil Neil again, I can't talk. I cannot talk enough about Neal Avron's ability to just get the best guitar sounds done. Matter what the guitar sound is, though, like whatever it is for that band, I feel like he's get it so good at it that's a little season. He just makes it perfect. Yeah, he's he's very good at it and obviously that comes from an engineering background, but man, I've just there's not a yellow card song that has bad guitar tone in anything that nail I untouched, and so they greatly benefited from that. I think he's right. And then he went on to do a ton of other records too. So good, good for him. Okay, so let's go to dear bobby together. All these use this house, Twentyzero days, the memories we saved, since life is and not be fun. It's all right, I'll be fun. Ryan starts playing piano a little bit around this time too, which is a kind of fun new dynamic, especially if you got string players at your disposal. So, Kyle, your thoughts on on Dear Bobby? Okay. So I'm glad you went to me first, because I I feel super conflicted about this song. Okay, because they're the things that I love, I love so much, and the things that I don't love just don't hit quite for me. And I gotta say that like his GRANDPA on there is just too much for me, okay, and like I know that it's real, and so I appreciate it, like I'm not trying to be disrespectful to his GRANDPA or anything, but like it's too much. It's it's so it's unrelatable. You know how, like you guys all record music. So it's you know how, like everybody is like Oh, I'm doing this song about a about childhood. I need to get a gang of kids in here to sing, and...

...it's like, Oh yeah, what a great original idea, and like anybody that, anybody that's ever recorded music, is like, that's a bad idea. And and you know that they're going to go there and you just kind of entertain it. And I feel like I feel like Ryan was like hey, guys, so I wrote this song and I really think it would be cool if I get my grandpa, who's really old and not going to be with us much longer, to come in and say these sweet things about my grandma. And what do you think? And like no one's gonna say no to that, and they just let it happen and I feel like it pulls you out of the song a little bit. And then the other complaint I have is like, first of all, the chorus, I think, is brilliant and simple, because if I die, then I die love in you. I love that so much. But then they'll I think the line about Twentyzero days is so bad, like that is just a bad line. See, I like that line. That's what's funny. I like that one. But but overall I love the song and the things that I dislike about it. I just wish, I just wish they were different and I love Sean's backgrounds on this one. He's a yeah, that's a great point. He's I shot love that he does the background vocals on this kind of call and answer stuff for them a lot and they have it. They've blend well because they sang together for a totally I love it and and there are things that I wish it so okay, Chris, let's Goodie. Next, what are you or your thoughts on it? On Der Pobus say, yeah, I felt the same way, like it's not it's definitely the one on here. I'm was like, yeah, I don't know. I think I thought of the movie signs when Kyle was talking about about it, like how the guy he can only swing at every pitch, and I feel like that's where I did. On size. He's like he swam so hard and sometimes he nailed it. Then what he went through with. That's all. So I'm complete. I'm conflicted because I do remember initially, when you hear this record, being definitely taken out of it with the recordings. Yeah, and but I think that, hey, I have I have an adversity to that. In general, I don't like talking on like my you know, every hip hop album ever that thinks they're comedians in between tracks with this stuff where it's like not funny and it takes me out of the song to song thing. At least there's music behind this. But then I think the more I listen to it, the more it became endearing and and did I don't know if I want to say makes the song better, but because like the song would be we know what the song was about anyway. It's not like the lyrics are vague or something right, I think it makes sense, but I don't know, I kind of like the little click. I think they grew on me and so I think that eventually I think that it's better with it because the context without it would be too cheesy. Does that, which sounds weird for me to say that the recordings with GRANDPA take it down a notch in the cheesiness and it makes because to me it's like if this was just a love song, it'd be too much, but because I know it's a love song about his grandparents, somehow that makes it like, okay, I like this now more than I would have if I didn't have the clips. So I think I came around to it and I he can be sometimes when he gets a little sappy, that's when I think he's the worst at lyrics, if that makes sense, and there's a couple of them in here that are kind of like that. It's like he does the same thing. There's a couple of their songs. I'm trying to think of that. I feel like have when he gets a little sappy, I just kind of go, I don't know, it's not quite hitting me the way I think it's because it gets to he gets too specific and it and it's no longer could be about anything. This is like only can be about this, I think sometimes when he gets a little sappier. But who am I had to talk about people with sappy lyrics? I certainly can't judge because I do it too, so I think. But I think it grew on me enough. I mean, spoiler alert, it's it's going to be my grown out of show because of that. And you remember, yeah, he does have a cartoonish almost voice, I think, and that may be part of the problem. I think that that might be the thing that's bothering the new killers album is like this too. I don't know if you guys have listened to it at all, but it's like all in between every song is these talkie interview things and stuff, and I think it's almost it is the same kind of thing. I remember it jarring me. You might album's been out for like a month at this point, but it like jarred me at first and then, like, as I've listened to it a few times, I realize like yeah, but these are really adding a lot of context to what this whole album's about, and so I end up liking it. But it's not one of the it does.

I agree. I don't like how it just takes me out of where I'm, where I was at this point sometimes, but I think it works for the song. I don't know, we probably talked about that longer than we needed to, but let's go to track eleven, which is you and me and one spotlight. Everything dies, but together I'll dry your last much time to watch, Chris Bonnier? What are your thoughts on track eleven? Yeah, so what? I don't know how to say this it. I do like this song, but some of these songs are trying to feel some songs start to feel the same at this part of the album. We're going to get to a little more rock and at the end. But I mean, I don't have anything bad to say about the song. Like I mean, he shows off his pipes a little bit too good tune, but I don't just didn't hit me hit me hard or anything. Just all right, Kyle. So I'm gonna, I'M gonna go out on a limb here and say he's talking about doing it on this maybe I just got shy. Maybe that's why I was like, I don't want to talk about this song. I feel weird and and and I think it's I think it's like the nicest song about doing it any any pop punk guy ever wrote. Maybe more subtle than like boys to man, I'll make love to you, but it's I mean, I like it and in honestly, at the I think, I really do think that, how much I did not like lights and sounds, how much I liked this record, I'm like yeah, well, I'll take it. I like this verdict. You didn't like lights and sound. Just to be clear, totally. Oh, yeah, I'm just let me clarify. Or sure, yeah, not not. That one was a no for me, dudes for me. But but yeah, I like this song and I think also he's just I mean, I get what Chris is saying and also I think that he's just it's it's something he's good at. He can ride a he can ride a slow he can he can ride a slow jam, you know. So I think that's what he's doing. But I also the song always makes me laugh because it is like the cleanest song about Boning I've ever a see, I've not gotten that. I mean, I do see where you're coming up with the lyrics, but there's a few lyrics from like it doesn't work then for me because, like what about? I'm saying you'll get me before the ending, take my body, set my heart free. That's fair. But I like what's so one more show, one last time. I guess that could just be maybe the last time they're doing it. It was a final time. That is I think that we did. We should have any we talked about out at the time. Everybody's talking mom, which I hated, their dad, and he was like, I like my dad. He's really hard for us. He said, Ald some guy, even when he's talking about doing it, he's like hmm, just really enjoyed it. Girl. If he's if he's talking about boning, the best line is it won't be long now, Oh my God, it's too good. Just be and totally honest. This will not say take long. Hum It will change the song for you. This listen to. Yeah, now, my it's my new favorite. Thank you. Now I'm I don't know. This is where I'm like. Now, I don't now I want to know, like I really have to know if that's what it's really about. And you picked up on that. He calls in, he's like, yeah, that's about doing it. I'll tag. I'll tag them on the instagram post and let's see if we can get them to any song. was also about my GRANDPA? Sure, no, yeah, I know. I don't want him to listen to this. I do on someone. I love his music listening to this podcast. Okay, here's where here's where I am. It's it's it's less about this song, but I really do think these last three tracks are the strongest like three track ending of of an album, like as far as like how they go into each other, and I just I think they fit really, really well as the last three tracks. This one's...

...a little bit slower and then the next track, which will do in just second, kind of ramps up quite a bit and I just feel like it's like they were written almost as like one song. I know that's not the case, probably, but it does feel like I want to listen to these three songs together when I listen to him. I don't ever really want to listen to them separately because I feel like they really go into each other really well and stuff. I feel like this is the start of that. I feel like the other album that's like that for me is Jimmy e world chase this light. The last three tracks on album are so good and they feel very similar to this, where it feels like these three tracks are meant to be played together. I mean, I've always feel like the whole album supposed to be played together, but but man, I really I think that those are two albums I can think of where I'm just like Dad, they've finished so strong and not just would like the last track, but literally would like no, we're really gonna drive this home, and to me it the combination of like these three tracks for me kind of define the what the feel of this album is, and so this kind of starts it. Even though I'm with you, like Chris, like, I don't it's not my favorite song on the record by if I had to rank like which ones were better, I don't know that I even necessarily put this above some of the others tracks on the record. But something about the way where it is in the album and how it leads into the next two songs makes it a better song. So this is where the track order for me makes this a better song than maybe if it was somewhere else on the record. That a weird way. Don't think of this? Well, no, and you know I I was a little busy the last two weeks, so it was hard for me to listen. This all is one piece, and maybe maybe just the fact that I broke it up like it didn't hit me that way. I would do that, I think, although I try that out now. Try it out, I mean, and I do think the chorus gets a little bit especially when we repeats it like that. Melody can get a little bit repetitive when it gets repeated. But I do really like the versus a lot on this. Once again, I think that he does. So many people can throw away a verse because they're like Oh, I've got the course. That's what matters, and I feel like he does great courses. He also does, as mentioned, I think bridges are his kind of superpower. But I think the verses on this whole album are really good. There's not like a bad one and it doesn't feel like any of them are throw away or even we're thought as secondary or lesser than on the courses and so and this is another one that I do really like. The courses and the precurses specifically. I think they're really good. Hey, also, Chris, maybe you just need to listen to it and think about boning. That's the key. I think of it like that. I'll text you guys before I listen to it and I'll make sure to let you know that. Hey, colly, that maybe, like that's what Ryan said. Yeah, okay, we will, key, will we? Oh Gosh, so many innuendos with his last a key. Okay, let's go to track twelve. Cut Me, Mick this disaster. I know that might seem kind of like a weird clip to pick, but I just really love there's so good at that. Like, Hey, we're doing this chill string quartet kind of thing. And then Blen I. No, I mean and it just this rocking and I love that they can jump in those dynamics and you don't really think anything of it. It's this is a weird like you hear the intro of this song, or if I told you, like hey, there's gonna be like like a string quartet throughout the restides, you'd like wh what? Also, I can never, ever, ever, when I listen to this song counted in right from the Intro, I cannot ever figure out where I'm at. Something about the way that drum intro is. I think the one is where it isn't, and by the time they get into that verse I'm not on the right thing and it doesn't matter how many times we're trying to count it out. I know I'm wrong right when it comes in, but it's just one of those dumb things where it's like I could not count out the intro of this song for some weird reason. Anyway, what are your thoughts on cupping, Mick? Let's go to kyle first. Dude, I think you picked a perfect clip and I I agree that going from the strings into that new signature sound right. Yeah, they're doing it again, and also, I I refuse to believe that this song is not about rocky. Oh that's the line, right, cut me Mick, and and you're the one that I need. You know...

...that I can still bleed. Bring me back to life. Obviously it's been a very long time since I've seen rocky, and so I just totally forgot about that. And this also one of the things where I just don't pay enough attention to song titles and really, until I was typing this out today for the clips, I was like, I kind of forgot that this was even called cut me Mick, because he obviously say and he's done that more than once, so that wouldn't surprise me. If, if we know, he's a fan of film. Right. Yeah, that's interesting. I like that. I like that. Take Chris, what are your what are your thoughts on on cut me Mick, which we now assume is about rocky? It has to be. That line is definitely from that movie. I didn't pick up on that. Yeah, this is a great tune, kind of hiding here, little pikaboo action at the end of the album, like rock it out once again. This like percussive, interesting drumbeat playing out with the lyrics. I think what you said. Blake kind of hit on the same thing. The count is kind of weird. It's it's hard to figure out exactly what's happening. On the same way as you like. Oh, and I try to get it doesn't quite seem to work, especially with the intro. And I do have a question for you guys. Quite why did the background vocals in that clip that you play hit so weird? Is it just not normal for for him to be singing just so naked by himself the violin? Is that him, or is that? Yeah, that shows that somebody else. I thought it was yeah, but it just did hit. It hit me different and I was wondering why that was. Maybe maybe just so used to him. Yep, seeing along with Ryan, I don't know you, I'm not sure it's sound a good I think you're right, Kyle. This is probably about rocky yeah, and in a cool way. No, a very cool way. I like that. I think that's a cool way to write a song. I've always kind of wanted to try I've tried it a couple times and it's hard to not be super on the nose, but it's a it's a good kind of songwriting. Trick of like, if you're kind of out of ideas, like pick something that you like, like a book or a movie, and pick one little thing about it or something, and try to write from some perspective. If you listen, William Ryan key is the is. Was the other song about doing it? And was this about rocky? Please get back to us, get back to us, let us. We Love You, we love your music. Yeah, we're except for lights and sounds. We are giant. We are giant lifetime fans of yours, please, huge fans. Yeah, it's true. Yeah, okay, so the see, I'm learning new things about this album, even though I've spun a million times this point and love it, and proves how little sometimes I pay attention to lyrics, and including in the title being be cut me, Mick. Might that might have been a hint. Yeah, I think. I think you're right, and he's done that a couple times so, including about the dark night before it was even written. He's that town. Yeah, you're right. Okay, so let's go to the last track and also the title track. Paper walls, here we go. That's take what hurts and write it all down on these paper walls, and this simt house and Chris, what are your thoughts on the final track? Paper balls? Is How you end an album? Oh yeah, yes, it's got everything. It's almost a ballot. It's got the freaking that metal sound that we're all digging so much on that thirty seconds, if that, after that, the part you didn't the part you played, is like an homage to the very beginning. There's like a little instrument right and in thirty seconds that like that Look Guitar Square. Cool. It's it's a bad a way to end the record. Nice job. Applause. Yeah, especially the outro out of cut me mick into paper walls. It's like this fluid thing and got the little choir at the beginning of it and yeah, they come in super hard and yeah, they end it on the right note for sure. Kylewitter thoughts on paper walls? Guys, I have nothing more to add than what you've already said. It is indeed bad a. As Chris said, it is very bad a. What a freaking awesome song and even lyricwise, like the last verse is like my favorite set of lyrics on the on the album. I just love that whole like you know, let's take what herds write it all down, burning it all you know, that's such a great verse, I I it is so good. And obviously we didn't have the visual for because all the artworks based on this song to obviously for it front of it. So the little paper houses and the back of the album, they're...

...all burned down and it's a it's a cool most of the time I don't really care about album artwork. Honestly, it's like it either catches my eye or doesn't and then I don't think about it anymore. But I liked that they took like a Oh, this is actually has like a it's not just a pretty picture. They were like it had art direction to it, and I liked it. It really does elevate this song a little bit more and the album, and that's a cool thing, because that doesn't I think everyone thinks about their artwork, probably more than consumers ever. Do you know every every person in the band, like overthinks the artwork. Probably and and this is a case where I'm glad they took the time to not just put a picture of a girl in a sunset or something like that, which is fine. I'm like, I'm not dogging on that at all. I'm just saying like, yeah, that's fine, fine. I think the Ocean Avenue Sound, I mean cover, is also awesome. Like I'm not like dogging on it, I'm just saying, like, I like that. This one does elevate something about the track and the the whole album as general. So, yeah, great final track. Man. Again, these guys have been really good at this, of like the opening track and the closing track, although I think you guys didn't love the final track on on Ocean Avenue when we talked about that. Do I remember correctly? Am I wrong about that? It's been a while. Yeah, I thought I remember you guys being like it's okay, but not loving it. But I could be I could be slandering you right now. I don't know. Maybe you didn't say that time ago. It was a while ago. Maybe you're really that. Maybe we like it. No way we could find out. There's no way we'll ever know. Yeah, we could just go listen, I guess. The question. Does his GRANDPA talk on the last song? No, okay, well, that's not talking about yeah, it's solid. Okay. So let's go to lasting impressions. What do you guys think? Does it hold up once again, I laugh every time I ask this question because I think have we done one that didn't really hold up at all? Kyle what he thought? What are your thoughts? It definitely holds up and I think it it's so obvious that they to me that they correct course with this album. Yes, and and and I believe that like this is this is them being great and they just keep getting better and better from really from here out, I think. I mean we're going to talk a little bit more about it, but I think this is a perfect record. I think it's every single song is on it. I didn't I don't care for his GRANDPA being on the on the one song, but I still I wouldn't want I don't want that song to go away. Yeah, I still really like it, and so, I mean, yeah, it holds up and it's still really it's super impressive. But you may have mentioned this earlier, but like to have a record that doesn't do well and doesn't connect and and then to be able to put this out, that's pretty impressive and it probably points to lights and sounds. Although none of us really love it, it'd be hard for us to argue that it probably what the record that they wanted to make. I mean, excuse me, it was the exact record that they wanted to make, because, because here they are doing their thing, you know, correcting course, doing their thing, and it's like this is great. And I think they did so without like just going back to what worked on Ocean Avenue. It's not like, I see this is not confused with Ocean Avenue. In my opinion, like there are a couple songs that maybe could have fit on there. Maybe, yeah, tops, but like really, even the like even the like balls of the wall stuff on this is harder than anything that was on totally Ocean Avenue, I mean. And so they manage to yeah, I think it holds up because they they didn't dig their heels in or give up. They just realized, like okay, we are they didn't even ever say they like thought it was a bad record. License sounds and as they just thought they like maybe it just wasn't the right record. Something just didn't go right, and I think that that's mature to realize. And nothing about this screams desperation, though. Does that make sense? It's not like yeah, like, I don't feel like they're just like well, we better go right only one again, like there's not this. They're clearly not doing that either, and so I like it and I agree they they continue to do that and they really I think they hone in their sound on this record. I think that what Kyle said is right, like, and that's what I think really makes it hold up, is that they there's a lot of elements from this album that then happen for the next three or four records that come after this and and becomes a stylistic thing that they stick with. And it's...

...easy to get into a Rut when you work with the same producer all the time, and I they're one of the few examples of someone that continues to work with the same producer and with good results. I think sometimes that can be you make more than three records of someone, it's like you might need to switch it up or else you get a little stale. I I I don't feel like they got stale. They although I wouldn't say there are gigantic production differences between their records, but I do feel like they do a good job of like there's something that makes it cohesive and and so yeah, I think I think it does a good job of that. Chris what are your thoughts after I've rambled for a bit, but you yeah, you hit, you hit on probably the most important point. I think the reason holds up. Sonically, first of all, it just sounds so good, still, so, so, so good, even it's thirteen years old. And it also exactly what you said about how the sound that kind of came to fruition here is what makes every record after this so great. And it's such an interesting journey for this band because Ocean Avenue, it's like it's like this little section at the beginning of their career and then let's sounds like we had the segue where things will quite go right. Every album they make after this and then following are just chock full of amazing songs. I hope we get to talk about some of the other albums and other episodes, because I I'm sure we will. Yeah, I love yeah, I will continue to pick yellow card records. Yeah, for a while it and whereas they weren't playing arenas or like, they didn't get green day big or Blanquin Ay too big, I think they were. I think they had a really consistent career of like selling out midcap venues for the rest of their career, and it's probably because they just kept making really good albums. I think it really started with them this record, going back to the roots a little bit and saying, okay, weird seguelize, it sounds. Didn't work out. People didn't like it. What's not like rewride Ocean Avenue? But let's take we've learned. You know, you gotta put a spin on it and and and take our experience as songwriters and musicians and learn and how much better we've gotten and make. They just kept making phenomenal records after this, I agree. Held Up. I think so. This is this is where the question comes in, and it who we might say something different. This would be interesting to compare it to the the last episode we did for a yellow card album. But is it their best album? Because I bet we, we're probably also conflicted, will say something different on this one than we did on the last one. So let's go to kyle first. What do you think it's their best? I was just thinking the exact same thing. So I think no, I don't think it's their best, but it's it's great. I think their best and I think I'm the last episode I probably said when you're through thinking say yes, but I think southern air is their best. At least that's where I'm at right now. And also, I I really dig that they did what they did on lift the sale and just said, you know what, we're going to take this a little bit, we're going to we're going to take this up a notch and be a little bit heavier, a little more, a little a little different than the other yellow cards stuff. I love every record that from this point on. I mean they don't put it out anything that I don't love. So yeah, I agree with that. Chris. What about you? Do you think it's their best? Are To beat southern air? Man, I'm I'm with birthday buddy here. That record is so freaking good, top to bottom good. But yeah, some. I'm saying no, it would be. But if you were to do some sort of point system for all the records, I mean you'd be like one would be ninety seven when to be ninety four. You know what I mean? It wouldn't it rise they this is it's one of those for me where I adore this album enough that the vinyl copy that I own is more expensive than most finals I have because it's hard to find. There are people asking like four hundred dollars for it on anbathe. That's ridiculous. I didn't spend that but I don't know. It's really hard for me and I really don't know what I said on the last episode, but I do feel like you're right. What Kyle said is dead on as far as like, from here out, I love all the albums that come out and lift a sale took a little longer to it was it wouldn't hit right up front, but I remember having a text thread between us that I was like, guys, I think that lift of sale is like like a very much a grower. This is before we've been doing this podcast, obviously, but I was like this is like a huge like took me kind of a like maybe ten spend, twenty spins or something like that to really really get into it. So I didn't hit me as fast as like this album did, like I'm imediately like this album. It didn't have to grow on me at all. These three in a row specifically, are really good. This when you're through thinking say yes, which I think is a great album title, and then southern air,...

...and I'd go back and forth on those two. It really does depend. Like it's almost like where I'm at in life is it changes my but southern air is is is really good too. I'm kind of with you on that. But I can't I can't pick. It's really hard for me to pick if I think one is their best album or not. But I do feel like, because this is the start of them kind of defining themselves a little bit better, that they I think they do get a little better at that on the next few records and I actually really like their final record to I think it's it's a it's a great final record. So hard for me to pick on is it their best album? What about? Is it their most important album? I think this one's probably going to be pretty easy. But, Chris, what do you think? I no, no, I don't think so. No, I mean it was they had a blip. I mean it wasn't important, it wasn't important for their career. I mean I think it was important that they bounce back. Yes, so in some ways it is. In some ways, if, like, they don't bounce back, maybe they don't become they don't get to do the next several records. So in some ways, at that sort of fork in the road kind of situation. It does seem important, but that's also going like that's a what if kind of situation and it's not important by the standards of it didn't make them super popular. It wasn't a breakthrough record. It wasn't like they invented did something new completely. On this record they kind of redefine themselves a little bit. But so I think it is an important one. I think it's probably the second most important record. Is that fair? Because like Ocean Avue, avenue is probably going to be the one that's the most important, but I would say this one, being able to come back after lights and sound not working very well, I would say that their second most important. Kyle, that's that could work. Yeah, because really it really does bridge the two pieces of their career together, doesn't it? Yeah, even though this is like pre hiatus, to me, it feels like part of the next four albums that come out, as opposed to and so it kind of makes Ocean Avenue and and lights and sound kind of on its own little island for me in my head, even though there's like almost no time between lights and sound in this album, it just feels so much different that I can't I feel like this is the start of the next thing, whereas like Ocean Avenue, lights and sound was a different period of time for the band. But maybe that's weird. Kyle, what are your thoughts? I completely agree with you. You can make an argument that it is their most important as far as their career continuing. Yeah, but you know, just as far as success goes. I mean, yeah, Ocean Avenue is and there's probably not a song that, like the average person on this album is going to make them feel the way that like, only one or ocean avenue, or I mean any of the I mean, but I can tell you, as a fellow fan like yourself, that all the record, this record and and what came after it are probably more special to me they are Ocean Avenue. And so yeah, I mean you you could convince me that in that way we would, you know, if this record didn't succeed or give them any kind of success, maybe, or if they don't make this record, we definitely don't get the rest. So, but no, yeah, or even if they wait too long, I mean, yeah, exact even the gap, I mean the fact that they then go on a hyatus the next year. What if they don't make this album before they decide to go on Hiaus, and then maybe they never come back or maybe they don't have that juice in the tank of having an album they're really proud of. And, like I said again, I'm not saying they weren't proud of life and sound, but they admitted that maybe as a little dark, maybe was a little anks to you. Maybe it was like not the right thing for the time. Yeah, that's that's a curious, curious thought. That's kind of the first one I feel like we've had that has like it's sort of a lynch pin. Yeah, but we don't, like no one would list it as an important album, of which is a bummer, because I think it's one of the best pop punk albums of that decade for sure, especially because we don't get, when you're through thinking, say yes, until what two thousand and ten or eleven, I forget what year that is, that that comes out, but two thousand and eleven, two thousand and eleven. So we don't get another one for four years after this, and that feels like a significant it's a good one. Yeah, so I'm to me, this one one of my favorites of the two thousands, and that's fair to say, because the next ones don't come out until the two thousand tens. Okay, let's go to awards desert island songs. Two or three of your favorites, Kyle, we're going to your first. You got to pick first. WHO. Okay, well, I don't know how. I wasn't prepared for this. I never know. Very oft very rarely do I actually mark my songs before we get to this point. It's almost like I need to ruminate in your guy's opinions of songs before I really pick them. But I do the same thing. I'll go, yeah, the final picks. Yeah, the final picture.

It's got to be five becomes for the takedown and I'm gonna go paper walls. Man, I like the final track. Chris, what about you? One of your your desert island take down five becomes for but I went cut me, Mick, I still you know, those three at the ender are hide there. And Yeah, picked one too. I think. Oh man, it's hard. Definitely the same. First to take down and in five becomes for. Are My first two, but I'm I'm really torn between those two that you all pick. I think I'm going to go with Kyle, though, and say paper walls. I think it's still consensus of a very strong, very strong tray, and normally I feel like that indicates that the rest of the album is lesser, but I don't feel like that's the case here. I think it's just that those, those songs are so impactful that it's hard not to put them on the list of things that I would want to listen to you all the time. Okay, what about nobody's perfect? What's the worst song on the album? I'm curious what happens here. Chris, do you have one? I didn't really have one for this one. I mean there's not. I don't know, man, there's not one that stuck out that that badly to me. Yeah, I'm crying uncle on this one. I don't have a pit for this, for this one. Child Boy, about you? No, I think it's I think the record is great. I disagree with some production choices on dear bobby, but you wait alomatic way to put it. Yeah, I don't. I don't dislike the song. I wouldn't scribe all. Yeah, I just disagree with that decision and that's why I likened it to the children's choir, because it's it's a trap that everybody falls into. It just May and we mentioned on a few songs on this record earlier that like we enjoyed how like it was a little vague and it wasn't super on the nose, and I feel like that kind of went against his his, you know, usual not not being so on the nose, and so that's what I didn't appreciate. It. Appreciate about those production choices, but I still very much like the song. Yeah, I you know, it's I probably should have been more specific about this question when we first laid out the format for our podcast, but it is one of those things. was like, am I really true just picking, like if I had to rank the songs, what's the worst, or is it one I would actually kick off? I agree, because I agree with you. I would not kick off a song on this record, but I do feel like if I had to pick one that I think is the lesser, I mean I might pick shadows and regrets, I don't know, just because it's not like it's a bad song, I just feel like it's not as great as the rest of them. But but I'm with you. I wouldn't kick it off and I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I don't think I would change what this record is. But actually, if I had to pick one that doesn't make me feel the way the rest of the tracks feel, it might be that one. But that's just me, if I had to. What about growing out of show or, Chris, do you have one grower and not a shower? I don't know why, like it's weird for me for a second track to be a growing out of shower. But fighting just like kept growing on me and like the first time I remember the guitar ton sticking out to me so much because the Jangle jangling herds the beginning, but then I and I couldn't you pass that. But like after that that song just kept growing on me and I think it's one of the more stream songs off this record too. So maybe I'm not the only that feels that way. Kyle, do you have a song that you maybe didn't like it first but now are totally into? Nope, no, okay, I think dear Bobby's kind of that for me, because it did so hit me weird at first. I was kind of like what's happening on this and it kind of did make me maybe not like it as much front, but it grew on me a lot and, like I said, the stuff that you disagree with, Kyle, the reportings of the grandball actually, I think, are endearing now to me and they weren't at first. So I'm going to put it as my growing on a shower. Any final thoughts on the record before we had out, fellows, either one of you have a any insightful things to say about yellow card, this album, or otherwise you could just talk about well, I don't know what. I don't know what you guys, but whenever we do the second time we've done a yellow card and then I go on a yellow card cake, I don't see it ending for another few weeks. Yeah, just like yeah, playlists chopped full of Ryan Key bridges. I think that mine. My final note would be that I think yellow card is a criminally underrated pop bunk fan is. I think that they I...

...think they were really good songwriters, really good musicians, really good live really unique as far as like you couldn't confuse them with someone else, and I feel like that kind of flew under the radar because I don't like when I'm when I tell people I'm like I'm a I love yellow car. They're like really, I mean, like that's the reaction I feel like I get more often than like Oh, yeah, you know what I mean, like that makes sense, and I just I wonder why that is. And I mean I don't know. I just feel like they made so many good records and I feel like this is a yeah, it kind of dipped a little bit of lights and sounds and then they just release five after that that are so good and I just when you look at that, how many people even have three good records right from this period of time? How many people? And and I think that, like I said, they've got six really, really, really good records and that, like, for the most part, I wouldn't take a track off of. I think they're well produced. I think that's really good songwriting. Thin even the track orders and things like that. That are little bitty things we pay attention to and I don't know, I'm with you. I think I'll do the same thing, just going a yellow card kick, which I kind of always I do sometimes. Anyway, I did go back and listen to lights and sounds. I didn't do the stuff that came after this because I already knew I loved it, but I did try lights and sounds a couple times just to be like, was I being unfair? And I still it still hasn't quite hit me. I like some of it a lot more than I did, but it's still just doesn't it's just not as good as the stuff that comes after it. So but I do think more people should like and listen to yellow card because I think they were really good. And that's my soapbox that I will staying on in. My wife will disagree because she is a she. It's too rocky for her. She just can't handle when I put a haters a hater. I thought about recording clips of her reacting to every song and sneaking them in his clips, but like without her knowledge, like in the car or something like that. Hear her complain about it, but I didn't get around to that. So maybe for the next yellow card album I will do that. I will sneak in clips of my wife complaining about me a blasting yellow card in the living room. Well, that's it for us. Thanks for listening and again, if you like what you hear, please consider giving us a great review on itunes and you can subscribe so the new episodes conveniently show up on your phone when we release them, or IPAD or whatever you listen on. We do. It's fine. I look at the analytics for these things and they're quite a few people that listen to podcast on ipads. I didn't. I mean, I guess that makes sense. I'm just I picture me like carrying around an IPAD listening to it by maybe that's not how it works. And of course you can send US comments, disagreement suggestions at infut finding you, mopodcom or you can find us on all the social medias at at finding emo pod. Until next time, we'll catch you them. So I.

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