Finding Emo
Finding Emo

Episode 34 · 11 months ago

Ep034 - Pinkerton by Weezer

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Clocking in at our longest episode thus far, we talk about what is now regarded as Weezer's 1996 masterpiece (though it was basically hated by everyone at the time) and its contribution to the genres of the 2000s. 

Notes:

Welcome to finding emo, our podcast where we discuss our favorite albums from the early aughts, or mid S in this case, and thereabouts. I'm Blake Fisher. I'm joined by Chris Mounye and Kyle Simmons. Today we're going to talk about the one thousand nine hundred and ninety six album by Wheezer, entitled Pinkerton, which is exciting. So we're glad you're here to listen with us. This could turn into two part kind of thing, I don't know. Depends how long we talked about this album. So we promise we will split it in half into two episodes if it's too long. I don't know why that really matters because it's a podcast, but that's what we're going to do if it goes too long. So this might be our first one that's like that, because we just like this album a lot. So I don't have any funny reason to ask for a review. Guys, do you have any, any good reason to the people should review and subscribe to our podcast? Any, you know, insightful? Maybe they get some sort of prize or there's a pot of gold at the end of the Rainbow of subscriptions. The subscription rainbow a year a year end. We're like hey, we just don't really have we got none of reason. They could win a prize. That's why they could win a prize. They could. I think we might still own them. When a shirt from like doing this say our God, I'm not making promises about what prize they could when I'm saying they could win a p eyes if they gave us five stars, they could. It can't happen. So you could happen to you. It's an economy of scale thing. We need twelve people to win welve shirts. HMM, I mean, yeah, screen pressings just it's through the roof right now, just like the housing market. Sounds crazy. Screen Printing. It's crazy. Shortage in lumber and ink, for sure. It's apparently so, as mentioned, we're talking about Weezer's US nine ninety six album, their sophomore album, and I did the research on this and you know, sometimes we get on this podcast and we go there's not really much information about this album. This album is different. There is a lot of information. I think you get that when it's someone's sophomore album after a successful that's successful first album. So I'm not going to I mean I did a lot. I did kind of go down a rabbit hole. I'm not going to go into the weeds because obviously you all could do that yourself if you wanted to, but I will touch on the more interesting pieces of information that I found about this album. So if you if you were not aware of the album that came before this, the self titled and Ork now called The blue album, obviously that comes out. It's got some pretty big hits. It's a big record. I think that kind of makes rivers Cuomo go crazy a little bit and he decides. He decides to go to Harvard and take a little break. And I mean the specific quote I saw was about how when you reach that level of success as a band and so many of the people in the crowd are like college dudes that just really like buddy holly and they maybe didn't even have the record or you know, there's just a different vibe than they liked. You know, they had a lot of really cool oil fans, but then they had this like onslaught of kind of meatheads, I guess, and stuff just, you know, your people to like pop music. They don't really care that much. They liked the song anyway. That can be kind of weird, I'm sure, as an artist. And so he decides he's going to go to Harvard. He also has, I didn't know this was, the surgery. Had leg extension surgery. Why, which sounds terrible. It's like pens and stuff, and he's in bed and for a long time he's in severe pain, for like a year. Going to be covery of this? Be Taller? My might be. No, I think. I think he's one leg. I think he had one leg that was shorter than the other one, like so it was a problem, you know, for lots of other things. You know that that would cause. I'm sure that causes then back problems and general walking problem and unintentional pimph limb. Yeah, and so he so he has a surgery and he's in school and he's older than most of the people that he's in school with and I and so it that. And also he's famous a little bit. So that's probably. He's also in a giant rock band. And so this album, the writing of this album, a lot of it is, you know, he's been had written or in a ton of pain. An interesting thing that I read it was like he couldn't like get it wasn't playing guitar like he normally did. So he like all of his parts are and kind of first position for guitar, like kind of down at the bottom of the neck or whatever, because he couldn't really do the other stuff without a bunch of pain. And I think it was a little harder to figure out guitar parts for that reason, because he's a pretty great guitar player, but I can the writing of stuff. It was a little harder. And he also said that like most of the vocals he cut, he was in actual, like real physical pain, as well as like singing his...

...heart out about these things that he really felt. And so like he's like I you know, later on he was like I really liked my vocal performance, but I think he wished it was a little higher in the mix now, which I was always my biggest complain about this album was was that, you know, his vocals are kind of buried sometimes, but yeah, there's he was like, I think being in physical pain is actually a maybe it helps the vocal performance a little bit worse work do it more. Yeah, not that you'd suggest such a thing to have like a leg surgery to do so, but so that was kind of interesting. So basically what they did was like so this release September twenty four, nineteen and ninety six, but in one Thousan nine hundred and ninety five he's at Harvard and I think they start recording it. They go back to the same studio. They go back to gosh, what's it called? I wrote it down somewhere here, electric ladies studios, which is where they did the blue album. Spent two weeks there and did basically they wrote and recorded this album in order. So when we're always talking about track order, this essentially is in the order he wrote them and recorded them. So the first half the album basically fool first four songs is Electric Electric Lady Studios, which is in New York, I think. And then Christmas break they go to sound city for two weeks because he's in school, he's at Harvard, and they do basically the next four songs on the record and they had a couple extra songs too, didn't make the cut. But and then they spend his spring break at sound city as well, which is out in La closed now, unfortunately, but the fames like sound city where like Nirvana and obviously this album and Gosh, Tom Petty, tons tons of stuff, Steven Nicks. I mean it was like one of the things and it's where. That's the place where like Dave girl bought that board and now has that knee for that. Like all these crazy albums got recorded on it was all tape. They never would did it digital. So cool studio. If I'm wrong. Harvard pretty good school. Yeah, yes, they call it an Ivy League school. I believe for smart people take don't take the bait when when you ask somebody where they go to school, Oh, it's in Boston. I'm like, Oh, cool, there's a lot of schools there. That's good for you. Good, yeah, what you got? Good for your place. It's not asking. I'm not gonna let you say Harvard. I won't give you so. So, yeah. So they record this album basically on his breaks from school. So I'm basically a total of five weeks in the studio they make this album, which is interesting too, because at some points it sounds like they might have spent less than five weeks as far as like production quality. They self produce it, so they don't go back to rick from from the cars that did the first album and then other albums after that, but so they self produce it. I think that that was probably its biggest downfall was that, like I think rivers was again a maybe a little bit controlling of the situation and didn't let like the label help. Didn't want to do any traditional videos for it. Spike Jones, I think, suggested like how to take for El Scor Jo. They didn't want to do it like they're he was like way too worried about like the video taking away from the song meaning to him and like maybe then changing the meaning of something, and so they basically didn't want to do what they did what gave them all the success from the blue album. They didn't want to do and you know, I can under stand a little bit where they're coming from, but it does feel a little bit like a suicide mission, because it's like, okay, you're not going to do videos, you don't want to release singles and you wonder why it doesn't end up doing that well, and you know that's kind of it. So refused to do normal video treatment. Songs are in the kind of order he wrote them, and it like the inspiration for this was the the opera a Madam Butterfly, which is about an American sailor who marries a teenage Japanese girl and pregnacer and then leaves basically back for the states. Mary's another American woman and comes back and when she finds out she killed herself. So Super Happy, fun time thing. But her name is butterfly. In the thing. Therefore, the butterfly at the end of this album and therefore Pinkerton is also the antagonist in the play or in the opera, and that's why it's named Pinkerton. So this whole thing, it's kind of like his version of of of that. And it was originally going to be this like sci fi rock opera and they kind of dialed it back, as all people do when they try to do a rock opera. It always ends up being the first two songs are and then never mind, we just wrote the rest of an album. So yeah, that's kind of the history of making it. The the interesting stuff about after it's made and released is that basically everyone hates it and it's like rolling stone pain. Basically there was no one that was saying this is the album, like I think rolling stones. Readers dubbed it the third worst record of the year, which I'm like what are the other two? I've got to...

...know, and rolling stone like kind of famelessly, like twenty years later, like revised their rating from I think they had two out of five stars and then like now it's five out of five and it's in. It's in every list of these emo lists, which is always really interesting to me when kind of email comes about in the in the S, because this gets thrown on the list and I just never thought of Weezer as like in that vein. But I think the thing that solidified that for everyone, and we can discuss this, but obviously, lyrically it's totally different than the blue album and a departure and you know, it's obviously a little darker, it's a little it's like honest enough at some points where you're like Oh, but you're not supposed to say that part out loud, even though maybe lots of people think that, but that's what he wanted to do. And then, obviously, because it gets so just like thoroughly rejected, he basically is like, I'm never going to do that again, and that's why we get the green album after this. That's basically like fine, you want polished pop music, I'll give you polished pop music. We can do that too, and you don't really ever get, I feel like you don't really get a personal weezer record after that, although I do feel a little bit like this okay, human one that they just released with like the all acoustic and orchestra and stuff, is like I'm like, okay, this feels a little bit more, you know, but maybe it took a worldwide pandemic for that to happen. So anyway, that that's kind of like it basically gets pinned. But it's every band's favorite album, essentially, if you're in a band at that time. So Jimmy world and all these bands are heavily influenced by Pinkerton specifically. So it becomes kind of like what clarity did with Jimmy World. It's like not necessarily the commercially successful one, although it did eventually. It took twenty years, but it did go platinum in two thousand and sixteen. So, you know, I think that's obviously a you know, a marker for its endurance. If, like, you slowly go platinum over the course of twenty years, like most albums, if they don't do well, they just don't ever do? Well, yeah, there's not a lot. It's normally like a big spike and then tapers off or something. Or if you're lucky enough to get to release on vinyl and then CD, you get like, you know, double the music sales or whatever, like all the people from the S did. But that wasn't happening over from one thousand nine nine six to two thousand and sixteen, like record sales weren't going up, and so I think that's impressive that it eventually goes platinum and now every everyone's got it on their list of the best albums from back then and most people regard it as their best album too. So it proves that people don't know what they're talking about in the moment. Sometimes hardly ever, hardly ever, and so you know the well, I think we'll talk more about like the controversies of it later, but you know, there are a lot of people that thought I think. I don't think they said this then because it was the s, but now everyone's like, oh, he's all the ist, he's sexist, he's racist, he's Blah Blah, blah, blah, blah, Blah Blah. So we can talk more about that. I think that that's silly to do in art, but you know, people can have their opinions. They're entitled to them. Yeah, so that's kind of the history of the album and obviously there's a ton of other stuff. I just thought those were the most interesting points to talk about. So I think we should talk about kind of our first impressions. Oh, by the way, is on Geffen records. Don't know if that matters to you all at all, but that's a big label and obviously there was some tension there between what Geffen wanted to do with it, because they've just had this super successful first album from this band and all they want to do is like continue that success. And I don't think they were trying to tell them like you got a dial it back. I think they were just like can we do a music video? Yeah, it's okay, we get it, like you have your vision for it, like we just that there's some like basic stuff we do with music and we'd like to do it with your album. blease. Right. Yeah, I mean it's like let us do the things that we know how to do, like you know, like and it's not like it's Spike Jones coming to do a video for them who did their other videos. It's not like, you know, yeah, we're not trying to like saw something movie like the bodyguard with you with rivers. Start to get it, you know, like it's, yeah, this is Spike Jones who does jackass, like yeah, we'll have fun with it. It's a promise. Like. So I think that I want to live in the alternative universe for that video came out, I know, and I think that I think the weird and we'll talk more about this, would go. But I mean I think there's such a clear like blue album to Pinkerton and that everything that had. They take like a five year highus after that. So there's like five years between Pinkerton and green album happening, and Matt leaves the band in that meantime him and so you know, you've got some obviously turmoil from from making those decisions and stuff. Oh and like he was like also, like he like painted all his walls and ceiling black,...

...like put fiberglass insulation in the windows like you just he's really not taking the same thing well, I don't think, or any of the things that came with it. So so I think you end up with this really honest album and in kind of saying exactly what he feels like at the time, even if it's not, you know, I said, maybe even if it's a little cringey, that's fine. Yeah, but and we'll talk more that as we getting songs. So what was your so let's go to Chris First, like, what was your intro to wheezer and or this album? Both, I guess, since this the first one we're doing up there. I mean, Weezer was just me being crazy about MTV and turning it on every day when I got home from school, and I remember the first time I heard Oh my God, wait, Buddy Holly, no, I'm done, I'm done. UN sorry, I could had complete brain far right. There I was on my way to the golf course with my dad. I remember we were gonna go golf, like you just got me golf clubs. I know it's such a weird memory, but I remember hearing that song and I was like what is this was? It was so weird and different and really cool, and so, of course, you know, BMG, I was ready to go that next that next round. I was like, Oh, I know, I want that weezer album. I Um. So I got into the CD clubs. I've totally forgotten about this. Yeah, man, you just tape, remember your glue the Penny or tell yeah, such a gimmicking trick. Yeah, such a weird gimmick, like really need this penny. There's no way you're actually like, well, we added all the pennies up and got a little extra profit bonuses for everyone. Maybe. I don't know. Yeah, but yeah, I was. I was blown away by Weez Right, I absolutely love him. Plus it was another album I bought right list to all the songs, and that was something that was kind of new indifferent to me and the s not all albums were that way back then. Oh No, yeah, we were. We were cranking out sometimes one good song on an album and yeah, and he's yeah, and riding that wave to a bunch of CD sales. So so the weird thing is, though, is I get really into punk rock and by the time, by the time peekerton comes out, like I'm not super interested in Weez er anymore. Yeah, so I didn't really like listen to this album for the first time till two thousand til after I school, when jt and Danny Danny, who is in me, and Blake Span played it for me and was like you've never listened this record and I was like, I just heard it wasn't that good, you know, and yeah, that never heard anything great about it. So then they played it for me and of course I was like this is really good. Like why did I feel about this? I so yeah, and then just became part of my regular rotation ever since then. It was just a little too raw, I guess. I maybe maybe in ninety six I even did listen to it. I just have no memory. Yeah, like actually listen to this record until after high school. And it should be noted Chris and I are in a weezercover band named Tweezer. So like we're not scrubs on the wayser catalog. These guys know what's up. We know how to play all these songs. We do slow barely on some of them, but yeah, so we're fans. Kyle, what about you? What was your, you know, intro to the band and or this album, intro to the band blue album? But I can tell you, guys, I have a also have a very vivid memory about this record because stupid blockbuster music or where, you know, depending on where you live, hastings or whatever, else. They put a parental advisory sticker on Pinkerton. And so, because I think of Al Scorchro, it wasn't it didn't belong on there, like it wasn't there, but they like put out of this sticker. Yes, I put a sticker on there, and that's my mom wouldn't buy it for me. Right. And so I had I had this va chest tape of a midget, let a little person, excuse me, a little person Western. It was all little person cast called terror in tiny town, and I real thing. This is real. Link it in the show notes just to the left her. I did not know. But go on and and I traded a kid named Stephen that I was in class with. I traded him terror and Tinytown for Pinkerton. That's how I got my hands on a copy. That is the craziest thing I've ever heard. I sorry, I just have a fault question about the movie. Was it a...

...long movie? was like forty five minutes. So they have a whole hour and a half. Like cut was the plot? I say it is like it. At most it was an hour. There's black and white. It had like little person, like everything that was in a western. They were around on Shetland ponies. Was it old? Yeah, it's like an old movie. Yes, I love it too. This is a great time in life where like, if you had one copy of a movie, that was the only copy, like you would just like make a copy of it. Well, honestly, I'd be willing to bet that that's probably worth something now, just someone. I probably, I probably gave him like just this precious heirloom, but I wanted to get my hands on Pinkerton, and so I gave him. I gave him my treasure. You know, I don't know why. It's work, guys, it's perceived value. You know, why do I ever go after you? Kyle, this is a terrible my my introductioning the wheezer is going to be so boring after this. Well, well, with the best buy, bought it. Do So. So then you like, did you like it immediately or what we what we were initial impressions. So, honestly, I loved blue album so much initially I was disappointed and it probably took me I don't know, I mean I would I'd imagine probably around the same time as Chris. Sounds like like it probably took me a few good years before coming back to Pinkerton because Steve the the drummer in the band I played, and Steve was like we would rock wheezer and he's like, Dude, yeah, you got to listen to Pinkerton again, and and all of the things that I think. I probably I don't remember disliking Pinkerton. It just didn't take the first time. And so, yeah, I think when I gave when I gave it time and came back to it, all of those things that I'd be willing to bet our why they did it. Didn't take it at the time. Man, I was ready for it when I when I revisited it. Like I will not get any further ahead of myself, but I will say this. This album, to me even now, is like just barely controlled chaos and I love that. Yes, yeah, that's a good way to describe it. So mine's not as interesting. I'm a little younger than Chris and Kyle and slightly better looking. Just gear exactly younger than me than I am. I'm a little younger. And so, yeah, the men exactly by the exact same amount. But the so I didn't you know, I'm in when the blue album comes out. I'm in elementary school, and so I'm not buying albums when I'm in own rooms, and I weren't. Rather, I knew Weezer was a thing. I like, I heard the singles, I did like their songs and stuff like that, but it was like it was like everything else on MTV. I didn't I didn't own albums at that point. So then it's like probably not until my it's and then, but then you kind of skip because, like, Pinkerton did not make a splash, like I didn't know it existed when I was in middle school and buying music, and I was buying plenty of music in nine, six, hundred ninety seven, that kind of arrange, but it was not on my radar enough so that then I probably bought it in like ninety eight or ninety nine. It's probably ninety eight. It's probably my freshman year, and I kind of I bought both of them at the same time. I was like I need to own these albums. So I bought that and Pinkerton, and I literally thought Pinkerton was their first album and blue album was their second album because of the way they sound, like it haggards and sounds like the endearing like you know, and and that's the point where I'm getting music and if I like a band, I'm going all in and buying everything I can of that band. So, like Jimmy World, I do it with them. I buy that, you know, the singles, little compilation. I'm trying to get my hand on anything I can find or download of Jimmy World. And same thing. It's like some of it's old and it doesn't sound as good, but I'm still into it and I'm kind of doing that here and I literally I remember the thing, the vivid memory that I remember, you know, having them both and thinking that Pinkerton was older and then figuring that out that it wasn't, and keep in my life. And that's how little of a splash it made in pop culture in ninety six when it came out, because there was no video because they're, you know, the singing. I don't know, it's just kind of a weird thing. They canceled their tour because basically, I forgot to mention that part. Like I think it's ninety seven. So this comes out in September ninety six. I think in ninety like less than a year after it comes out is when the sisters died. Michael and carly that are like big fan and that was they basically said they fulfilled all their contractual obligations and didn't do anything else after that for five years. So they didn't even like have the Promo machine of touring and stuff with it, and so I literally didn't know it existed. So that's kind of weird. But I did immediately like it. But it was but I can see how if you had blue album first and then went to this it would be kind of just such a like head turn but because I was listening to the full albums at the same time, essentially it didn't rock my world as much, like in a bad way. It didn't make me go like, Oh, that turns me off.

But the production was always kind of controlled. Chaos is barely controlled chaos. Is a great way to explain, right, because I always say that I think choosing to self produce is not a great move. Like I think that you can end up even if you have a lot of skills in the studio, which I don't think that any of these guys did at the time. I mean they have lots of musical skills, but I don't think they're like recording engineers or anything man any and and basically also keep in mind if he's telling the label, no, we're not going to do a video and things like that, you got to think he's being stubborn his crap in the studio to and like not even letting the engineers get a good kick drum sound because he's just like no, that's good enough, like or make it trash here or whatever. I don't know what was happening in there, but like somehow and blue album. It's so funny. I see people talking about it like it was this pristine production and like it's between grunt like it's not as Grungy as everything else was at the time, but like it's not as clean as like cars albums, like as far as rick okay, so or not worth close or the green album that comes in two thousand and one, or really any of the other weezer stuff that comes after it. It's not like overproduced at all, like it still feels like a raw band, but, you know, like vocals or dubs and stuff like that, and they definitely did like a I know they like basically recorded the the lead vocal and the background vocals at the same time, like like all three of them around Mike's and stuff. For Pinkerton, it's just a different feel. They did both live right, I might if I remember that right. Yeah, well, I mean I think they did. Yeah, but I like I don't think there's even clicks on Pinkerton, like okay, okay, you know what I mean. Like it's like it's lively, loose, but they still like added parts. They're like it wasn't like yeah, they were the performance. A lot of overdubs and vocals are doubled and stuff like that on the blue album and just production stuff that's there that's not there on this one, which adds to its charm. But I want like I also want to know, like I heard, I read an interesting thing where they were like would you ever consider doing like an, okay, human treatment of Pinkerton with like an orchestra? And I was like that would be cool to hear, like Oh, let's actually, I don't know, spend some more time on this stuff, because that's definitely the thing that bums me out a little bit is like the production is a little but it's a great album, like the songs are great. You know, I don't know. I don't understand how you could hear this album and trash it the way people were doing in one thousand nine hundred and ninety six, I can see like the production being a little bit, you know, like okay, that's that's weird, or I don't know, I just can't see how you could hear these songs and think they were just garbage, like because I remember immediately being like Oh, these songs are pretty good. And you know, I was a teenager, I realize, but and it's not like I was blinded by some Weezer fandom or something at the time, like I as I mentioned, they were kind of peripheral to my stuff at the time, but now I'm huge Weezer Fan and obviously those two albums kind of sealed the deal for me. But that's me. So I was a little late to the game, probably ninety eight or something that that I get that get both albums and really can appreciate their their fullness, and so that's not as as good as kyle story. So apologies, but pretty good. You know, there's obviously a lot that we can talk about. I think we'll probably just jump into the track by track and then spend time talking about the specific things. But you guys have anything you'll else want to talk about? Before we kicking the track by track, I have a question that maybe you guys know. Like I I specifically remember hearing like rumors that rivers had lost his mind and like he they recorded the second album and then he burnt all the tapes. Like you heard anything about that? Is that? Is that real? Is that? Like I don't think that's real. I think that's just legend or something. Now, I mean I think he really was pretty mentally not okay at the time for not in a good place. Like he's a Weird Guy Anyway, for sure, like he's an eccentric artist, like that's what he is, but like this was different. Obviously, the surgery, the school, the fame, the like, all that kind of tired of sex is actually written before. Like he wrote that song earlier. Like I think that was written in blue kind of timeline. What you're saying is his light. His life was kind his life was kind of really crazy enough that there doesn't need to be a fake. Yeah, so right, fake, yeah, it doesn't strange. Yeah, reality was weird enough and so he just ends up writing this like super honest. Like you know, I read thing a quote from Justin Pierre from most and city, that was like this is like my all time favorite album and it makes all the sense in the world why you end up with his lyrics after the influence of Pinkarnin, because like the kind of honesty and stuff that's there and kind of self deprecating in a in a real way, not in like, AH,...

...please compliment me kind of way. But anyway, it's just it's so interesting to me that so many bands really liked it in that but I can see why it's not commercially successful. Like I said, it didn't blip on my radar at a time when music was a pretty big thing in middle school and stuff. Yes, that's what it's weird to me, like you wasn't really into the Internet, I don't think yet. Not, not. No, I wasn't. I didn't have the Internet in ninety six. So if I didn't have a friend that was listening this record and told me about it and and there was no video on MTV, like, I might just not have known it came out. I mean, I literally think that I've literally think that's what happened with yeah, I mean I literally think that I did not have and I had friends that I know had the blue album at the time. I had friends in elementary school that had the blue album and I had heard it, you know, at their house and stuff like that. I don't think they had Pinkerton when we of course, they were probably more into like smashing Pumpkins at that point. You know, everyone kind of went a little harder. You know. Well, not that that year was Bush smashing pump yeah, yeah, things are really but that was all also very polished, like really goodlooking, like lead singer guys. And well, no, not in the case of smashing pumpkins. Bush. Yeah, I'm a fair billy. Corgan's weird looking dude. I may be alone on this, but another, another weird album from a very popular band came out that year. I was looking at this today, but STP's tiny music came out in ninety six. You and I love love that album. Yes, stuff would a little harder that that year, I feel like, because I remember feeling really weird liking the wallflowers album when it came out nine six or nine seven. Yeah, that was okay, like, yeah, I was like I really like this album and everyone will and everyone else like way heavier stuff than I did all my friends and so, but I don't remember weezer being on, like I said it. I don't think the aim of my friends in middle school knew that it existed. Maybe it also wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that, like, because he wasn't playing along, the label was just like fine, you know, like you, you, you don't want to, you don't want to record a music video, we're just going to tell everyone you're crazy and rolling stones. Gonna give you two stars, Buddy. Well, off the record. He went completely and say burn the whole album. Yeah, no, I never read anything about and burn the album. There were two songs that they cut from it. He burned them? Yeah, he burnt he might have burned those ones. Maybe. I've never heard them. So will we could say maybe he burned those two, but no, mean, it definitely sounds like he was going through some stuff, for sure. But I do just wonder, like like there's some sort of alternate universe where that album is successful and like what version of Wheezer do we get after the if if that happened, as opposed to what happened, you know what I mean, like that's I don't know, that's a weird fork in the road for them and I just wonder, like what comes next. I'm like, you know, the green album does not exist. If that, if Pinkerton's a commercial success to I don't know. It's like a weird thing to think about and and it sucks a little bit too, because you he kind of goes okay, well, you guys kind of hated it and he hate by the way, he hated it like in two thousand and one. He hated this album. He thought it was like a the like like a curse, and like he thought it was terrible and like it was kind of this bad, I don't know, like this chain Albatross around him or something like that that he couldn't get rid of. And like he hated it. And then, like I read an interview in like two thousand and eight with him that was like he'd come around to he's like I really, I really like it, I'm proud of it, but like there was a part where I was like he had all these self doubts to eventually like why did we self produce it? Why did we not, you know, kind of do some of this other stuff, because it just got trashed. It wasn't like it wasn't like, you know, some albums come out and the critics all love it or in they like it's not, it's not as good as blue album, but it's all right, it's pretty good. Yeah, but they, I. trashed it craps. Yeah, yeah, they literally called Crap Sandwich and and you know, and then all had to like retract their stuff twenty years later. And so, yeah, that's got to be a really weird thing. You make one thing and you feel like, oh, we made blue album and people ended up liking it for something that we didn't feel like we were, you know, which is like Oh, they make funny, they're kind of quirky and funny video stuff, and like that wasn't what they were trying to be like. And so then you go to Pinkerton and then it gets trash to and you're like, and not that blue I'm got trashed. Just got like a different kind of success than maybe they they thought they wanted with it and they were interpreting it a different way. They opened up, they opened up their hearts and revealed their souls and then people called it crap sandwich. And Yeah, that's got to be really hard because, I mean truth be told, I've never written a lyric as honest is anything on this record. For sure, like I'm just I'm just going to be totally honest, like I'm always kind of obscuring things or like,...

Oh, this song is based on one kind of lyric I thought of and that I built the rest of the song around. At are this never happened to me. or it did, but barely, you know. And he's writing like this, like you know, you can tell he's essentially if you didn't know all this stuff about him, you're like, oh this it's even more weighty. It's the same thing like we talked about on the motion city soundtrack album that we did. It's like, okay, you know he's really going through some real like substance abuse and kind of depression and stuff, and and that makes it more, just makes you appreciate it more. But it sucks that then people poopoo on it and you're like and it's like he's bearing a soul. Yeah, so that kind of sucks. So all right, well, let's go. Oh, so, let's read that quote, by the way, because I did write it down. So in two thousand and one this is an entertainment weekly, so I'll put a link to it in the show notes. He said it's a hideous record. It was such a hugely painful mistake that happened in front of hundreds of thousands of people and continues to happen on a grander and grander scale and just won't go away. It's like getting really drunk at a party and spilling your guts in front of everyone and feeling incredibly great and Cathartic about it, and then you wake up the next morning and realizing what a complete fool you made of yourself. Who you know? That's pretty lame. That's it's pretty deep. And what what sucks is that? Like it's probably because he's saying this in two thousand and one is people are starting to appreciate Pingerson. I feel like some people, you know, because I mean, like most we're all on board at that point. We've now we've started a weezer cover band two years after two thousand and one. So I mean that's like how not far away they really are from that album. But yeah, by two thousand and eight he's into it. So he came around to his own album. That's also so weird to me when people don't like when an artist thinks they're their thing is crap and I love it. That's always a really weird thing. I've heard a few bands through that. They were like where they did, really don't like it a record, and I'm like that might be my favorite record of yours. It's just interesting how that happens when you're, I guess, the person writing the song. So okay, let's jump into album discussions of track by track. Should be a lot of fun. Pretty quick album. Obviously it's like thirty minutes long. Let's get started with track one, which is tired of sex. I mean, the truth is on every one of these tracks I want to play the whole song because it's so hard to find a good, dirty second clip and Chris is are drumming to it, of course, because he knows all the drum parts, because the songs pretty good. Opening track. Fellows, Kyle, what are your thoughts on tired of sex? I love it. It's freaking. The guitar tone is so nasty. Those drums sound disgusting in the best way. Yeah, you're all Steek, disgusted, dirty, and actually I was last week, years old, before I knew he wasn't saying Monday night. I'm banging GIN. I always thought he was saying banging. I don't know. I just read the name tired of sex, and so I'm like, yeah, he's talking about banging people. I can't see why you'd he's making he's making. So, yeah, it's weird. You know, I heard. I guess I heard what I wanted to hear. Guys, we're clearly noisier. I think you're right, where we've got more overdrive on everything. We're definitely a departure and that Guitar Solo for me is is the departure from because the guitar work is cool on blue but there's not a freaking ripping solo like is in this bridge here. I mean it's awesome. So I'm into this sound. But yeah, and and it's also interesting then listening to because they we record it essentially in the order of the album. You know. We know that like these first four tracks are in New York and to like hear evolve a little bit as the album goes on is interesting. But man, it's a good first track and it's as I mentioned earlier, they had written this one earlier. This was actually before, I think they wrote this in kind of blue sessions or thereabouts. So it wasn't during the it was just during the group, E. Sex. It wasn't during the leg extension surgery, depression, post blue, apparently. But a good first track and a good first track lyrically for what comes for the rest of the album, of just like hey man, this is not fulfilling and he wants love. How sweet. But good first track. I like...

...it sent the line which I like synthesizer in it really fun. Chris, what are your thoughts on the first track? You guys said it. I I the the boldness. Since you guys talked about the musical qualities of what makes this song so great. I just want to tie talk about the you know, coming in and your second album, like the third line being I'm tired of having sex, because you know this the s and everybody like boys, two men, all the bands, like you, we don't say sex, we like may make love. We're sweet on each other, like you know, like everyone just like beats around. Yeah, Ha, ha, Ha, you will. How dare you not? On purpose? That was not good. No, it was. It was kind of like everywhere, though. I mean like it was like, yes, it was. It wasn't like maybe it is now, but it was all that is cold coded language. Yeah, like with metaphors and right, like yeah, just like I'm the man. That's it's a baller move and I hate just puts himself out there. I really like it. And yes, Nasty Grawley, ikey, Yep, drums. The Guitar Solo on the that you played, you know, channeling some feels to me a little bit like they're channeling some some nirvana vibes. And they always had a fondness for that band. So not yeah at sure, and they did half. They did have this record at the studio they did never wind and another record there too. I think should have had it. Maybe butch big could come in like hey, get you guys. Just butch big would be a fantastic producer for them. Actually, what's weird is that I don't love Butch fig production. It's not my feees, not my favorite producer, but I think he would fit really well with wheezer. Actually I think it would work really well and I think it could have been helpful. Yeah, a thing I would like to mention because I just love that they stuck with it. was like the Bass in the drum are completely locked in as far as like there is at on every bass note drum there is a kicker, a snare, bunk punk, pump punk, cat pump punk. I mean it's like it for the first verse and Chorus, like it doesn't straight from that until he starts doing some fills, and I kind of like how freaking just locked in they were, and the good rhythm section, which helps glue this a little bit together, because I think if you didn't have that on this album it would be a total train wreck, like I don't think it would work. But because they're pretty good, like we're solid, we're good, the guitars can be a little messier and sloppier thanks to the rhythm section. Pat The down, Matt Pat Holding it down. Okay, let's go to track to, which is get you. Chris Monie. Were your thoughts on the second track? Get you dark, dark song, I mean very, you know, tired of sex. Is got kind of a melancholy attitude about the the lyrics, but the song itself is it feels good, it's bouncy. Yes, exactly. Yeah, this was a little I mean it's got a synth line for the hooks. I mean it's yeah, it's Bouncy. This one's a little deeper and then, I don't know, this is when like things get really weird in this song, like right right off the bat, I mean right off the bat for the album, like the all the drum work after the Guitar Solo, how he's just like going insane with all those fills and everything. And it done. It's awesome, though. It's awesome, but it doesn't fit the idea of like how you would make a pop record and it doesn't. Know. But do you know? What I like about it, though, is that I feel like pat was very reserved on the blue album. Yeah, there's still some stuff that's like like that kick stuff he's doing. It's not easy. On like undone, it was a joke, like when we were playing songs at that age, like we would joke like Oh, just do the weezer thing like that. Yeah, it was what. Yeah, just it was just a CDC man just can't get but he is all over the place on this record and doing some like crazy fills where I'm like, Dude, the guy's got real chops and he's really you know, he's just dialing it back. Most of the time because this is like pop rock, you know, it's rock and roll, but like, yeah, you're right, the that Drum Solo, after that drum fill. It's pretty long fill. It's almost solo ish because it's like two bars or whatever. But yeah, after that Solo is awesome and it's a great intro. I think it is a perfect second track, by the way. We always talked about second tracks to and I love like it's got a great intro. It's a little darker,...

...you know, and I feel like it's the right takes us up the right step after tired of sex. Kyle, what are your thoughts on get? You? I agree it is a great second track. I love that guitar part on the chorus, the Din Din Din dying, you know, like the kind of got that bounce to it. I love the guitar tone. It's still dirty and I mean I'm digging it, I guess. If I have another thing, I really like you. You said they recorded the background vocals at the same time. Well, that's I so I tried to read more about that. I couldn't get enough information, but yeah, I did write a read a few things. That said that they recorded like three guys, three mics and did it all like like now, not when they were playing. So they like did all the tracking and then they did the vocals severally, but together they did them. So if you notice, like if you listen in headphones, it is always like, you know, I don't know who's who, but it's like Pat's over here and Matt's over here. So I think there's if they're both the singing and and I I kind of like I like how sort of unplanned it goes, because I think it's so much harder to do background vocals that are like these kind of background vocals where they're not always just right on top of it. Sometimes they're singing like an alternate line or like in tired of sex that they're doing. They're like so tired, you know. It's like yeah, they're kind of it's call an answer and things like that, and I think that works kind of well. Maybe in the same room. It's just hard because everyone's gotta do their fought. But if you listen to headphones, there's some backgroun vocals that are not good, like they're like not objectively good, like you know you can like that note is not good or that like there's there's bad guitar parts all over this thing where they mess up and they just that adds to the charm sometimes of it. But yeah, you're right, it's like almost it's barely controlled chaos. That's the best way to describe it. It's it's which is why it's almost shocking to me that took five weeks to record this, because it sounds like they might, I mean, and this is not me, don't I would keep them. I love this album, but it sounds like they recorded it in one day, like like if you told me that they'd gone in student in Studio for three days, I would believe it, like I would believe that they literally recorded the whole thing, maybe even with the vocals, live with the tracks. There's barely overdubs on this thing. You can tell. None of it's on a click like it is. But you know, there's a balance there. I think that you can strike. I think they struck it with blue. I think that they like they found that balance and this one they're they're straining a little too far to the underproduced side for my take. But like, the songs are so good I'm like whatever, it's fine, I'll deal with it. Did you have anything else to add, Kyle? Well, I was just kind of there. I actually really like the I really like the the background vocal in the verse much more than I like it in the course, but I but I I like the little yeah, background party. So and I just wonder who. I assume it's like rivers going like we're doing that again, or we're not doing that again. Mean it's them, like there's an engineer there, obviously, but a poor engineer, but they don't care what he wore. Engineer. Yeah, I'm just like, I can't, you know, there's no way. They're like. That's what's funny is like everything else that came out of sound city had this like it's a vibe studio for sure, like I've mentioned it before in this podcast, but that documentary, if you get a chance to watch it, that dave girl produced, it's great. It's all about the history of it and all the just like incredible albums that got cut there and it really had this kind of dingy, weird had a vibe like this record, like it was like old furniture in there and it was just kind of like a room that for some reason sounded really good for drums, but like there was no sight, like it wasn't like design. It's not a million dollar design or something like that. It's like literally this square room that somehow sounds amazing, and that's why everyone did drums there in the middle late s and so just had the basically got a vibe to it and I feel like, yeah, that's there, but you know, would be nice to have a little bit more, like let's dial in a guitar sound a little bit more, or try that one more time, but you should sing that on key right, you know, something like that. So, anyway, let's go to track three. No other one junk. She does scammy. She's got it to Kyle. What are your thoughts on no other one. It freakin rocks. You can Headbang to this one. Also, there's like a moment...

...in that verse that you just played. There's a single moment where it's like, Oh yeah, this guitar parts kind of Emo, and then it's like no, I'm going to play five other things. Yeah, I do think they I do think this is a good example of which is why I kind of pick that clip of the kind of single note thing going on. Yeah, it does feel a little bit more. It's kind of like a counter melody to what's going on in the verse, and I feel like that's that's why I was always just so confused because, like this feels closer to grunge and rock than it does too emo for me, because I think so much of the emo thing had a lot of like well, some people brought in more like cleaner arpeggiated dueling guitars, like American football and even Jimmy World, and some of these like, and I think of that thing at Sunday real estate stuff like that. Yeah, but and this has a little the dueling guitar thing for sure, but they were already doing that on blue, you know, like blue already had the stuff too. or it's like they're they're kind of playing off each other or like one guy's doing it, like, you know, no one's. They're not both playing the power chords generally the same time. It's like someone's doing open stuff and someone's doing so yeah, I that I don't understand. I think it's just lyrics. For me that makes sense to call this an emai album, but I don't under I get once again, it's hard for me to define Emil well, like you could. You can tell me this because you know you're a professional at this, because I don't play these songs in that verse, like from that picking part. Does after that happens? Is the same thing played once. Oh, that's that's more of the thing. I don't think that on this whole album. That's an interesting thing about learning this. So we've done a couple shows where we did like the whole blue album and then the whole Pingerton album back, like the whole thing front to back. At these tweezer shows that we do are weezer cover band and these songs are really, really hard to learn. They're not complicated, but they don't ever repeat. They always do something weird. It's always like Oh, and then there's a half a measure here, right then it's like Oh, this is in. They change time signatures, I think a couple times. There's definitely key changes all over this place and it's like with no reason. Yeah, that clip you played had that little guitar. So yeah, saying hey, let's say that's what I mean. Like in that SIP just there there was like five different parts. Yeah, and they never play it again on the rest. Yeah, yeah, they do a lot of that. They'll like and it's almost like in some ways I like that he's throwing away some of the formula stuff of like here's how you write song, which he was already good at on the blue album too. Like there's there's the structure of those songs is also weird sometimes, but they tend to at least like Oh, the verse is the same as the next verse. This one is not necessarily the case, and so, yeah, they're actually kind of hard to learn sometimes, like on some of these songs, when we play the ones that we don't play as much, like you know, tire sex is in the rotation every time we play. By the way, we play like once a year. So it's not don't don't get US wrong, we're not super awesome or anything, but but like you know this song and like getting into like especially falling for you, that song is so I literally have to have the chart in front of me with like okay, and then it goes to e and then it was it's like without the chords in the lyrics, I would be lost because you basically just have to follow it exactly, and there's quite a few songs like that on here. There's a couple really straightforward ones like El scorchos pretty straightforward Um, and that might be it, honestly. So yeah, you're not wrong. It's got some weird stuff and it's kind of a cool slow six eight vibe on this song that I like. Chris, what are your thoughts on no other one. I love this song. I don't understand, I don't get how he does this trick, but whenever you hear a good wheezer song, the melody always feels like you've heard it before. Yeah, it's got this quality to it at sounds like a Lullaby and I've always loved the melody on the song. This song is like. This one is so big and so small at the exact same time, and there's a madness to it that that makes it have that quality where you're almost like, were you guys accidentally brilliant or or just like? When it comes to the production everything, a lot of the things we've talked about, I don't think any producer would come in here, the song here, these parts and decide to make it sound this way but becaually like the bridge and stuff. I could bridge kind of out of left field on this one, but it works. But I think you're right. Someone would have pushed back on it. So that's where now not anything. You gotta find the right producer. You don't want someone this is trying to make you something you're not. But like rivers, obviously has pop tendencies. He's written really good pop song. Yes, he knows what he's doing and I don't want to get too deep, but I just want to say, like, isn't it kind of beautiful that we have this piece of music because of all those choices that were made? Because, yes, song...

...doesn't exist like if you do like the Rick and morty thing and talk about, like, you know, the parallel university, I don't think this song exists like this very many times I made. It's a very special and all the songs on this record, but this one is, you know, most notably right away, because it's, like you said, it's got that kind of swooping six state feel, but it's also still big, loud, grungy guitars. Yeah, and and I think it's it's interesting how we're getting. I feel like we are getting like lyrically, and I'm not the big lyric guy. I'm really not, like I don't I care about songs and melodies before lyrics. He could be singing nonsensical stuff over this and I'd still like this album. But the lyrics do add a layer of like something I do really like because I think they're pretty good. But we do, I do feel like we are we're starting off kind of like tongue in cheek, tired of sex. I feel like it the GRUNGE, the dirt on it could not fit on the blue album, but lyrically it could maybe work. You know. It's kind of like it's interesting twist on like everyone else is talking about sex and he's like, I'm tired of it. And then I feel like by this one we're getting a little bit darker, like a little bit, but we're not quite until like and then it just gets like I feel like it just gets a little bit more like he's getting more and more depressed. I think is he's writing this album. I think it's pretty clear, you know what I mean, like maybe getting a little more crazy, and we're not quite there yet. I feel like we're still like, oh, this is kind of a this could be a sweet song, you know, and but I feel like we're just we're going down a rabbit hole kind of thing as we get further into the record. And I have to say one last thing. The all of the drugs she does scare me real good. She's got a tattoo and two pet that makes me two pet snakes. Yeah, that that part. I always Miss Matt and the falsetto thing. Yep, he's really good at that. And Yeah, so, so post post this. With Matt leaving, we don't quite have that, although I do really like their basis. That's in the band down. It's just a different time. It's just a differ, different thing, for sure, different thing. I think he's actually a way better bass player. The new guy. I got to draw a blank on his name. I'm now a bad weezer fan forgetting I can remember the green album like you, damn mikey. Yeah, like I literally cannot think of it anyway. Okay, well, let's go to track for which is why bother that, Chris Milian, what are your thoughts on why bother way? We gotta play again. I missed playing these songs with you may yeah, we do need to play again. We should make it happen. I've got an idea of a place actually, so I think we should. We should do one this year for sure, great. Now it shows her back. Yes, yes, so great build up. The guitar stops on the chorus. The tight that's not anohings tied on this record, but you know the bat, Bat, yeah, Bat. I just love it. And I wrote this note. I don't even know how to explain what I'm trying to saying. Like the drums just really aren't doing what they should be in this song. Like when if you're if you're doing the methodical approach of the blue album like that, you wouldn't do that jet Goo Goo Chet like. You would stick with your rhythm section. And it's just sloppy and amazing. The Bass and Guitar Solo playing together really nice and one of the most amazing weezer buildups. In the very last verse there's the Classic Weezer build up. Like it this. It gets institutionalize on this record. All the best one. Yes, sorry, with the exception of undone. And and we're talking about the eighth note. Everything's playing the eighth Dunn, it's three, it's two hands doing it on probably ride snare or Hattan snare, and then the kick doing it too. And you're right, it is the Weezer beat. Yes, and one more. They have to say that. I love the Matt Not Matt Pat does on this song, as he's like, okay, I'm going to do a film before each course, but it's can be different one. It's going to be a different one every time and they're not complicated, but it just like, Nope, I'm gonna do the one from before. I'm doing a different one, but remembering. Yeah, when you're playing these songs live for me, and obviously I'm not in Wheezer, I imagine they are used to these songs, but some of these are. I'm like, maybe you do forget, like wait, what, what do I play here? Obviously they can do whatever they want, but yeah, and that that last chorus is complicated. The Chords Change, the whole corprogression changes, but I love it. I'll love to call an answer thing. Why Bother? Why Bother? It's great. I mean...

...this is one of my favorite songs. I just I think it's so good and I and again we're getting into more of like why do girls not like me? And it's it's it feels more real because you know it's like he's the older guy at Harvard that it probably is like funny enough, like he's maybe the unpopular kid because he's like, because he's older than everyone. He's probably kind of weird. I mean, you know, I assume, although all these kids are probably weird at Harvard a little bit. You know, they're all smarter than they can maybe function socially in some situations. But yeah, we start getting more of the lyrics there. I'm I just I love the last verse. It's a crying shame them all alone, not with you, not with her, nor anyone. Won't you knock me on my head, crack it open, let me out of here. I just I know, I love it. I love the way things I love his vocals, like the performance he gives on this are is so good. I just wish it was a little louder. I just want to be like riverture, the lead singer. We like the vocals, but I know he was again and probably that mix session going turn down, turn them down, and then just got the point where they were a little under the mix. Sometimes the background vocals are louder than the lead vocal on this album, which makes no sense to me. But, Kyle, what your thoughts on why bother? I don't think I have much to add. I really love it. One of my favorite courses on this record. And also I really like the buildup on this song. I like how it's like the guitar starts it and then and then the bass takes it and it's just they sound. It sounds fun, like they're having a good time. You know, you're right. The bridge feels so fun like I love it. Goes from that high thing on the base coming in real low rumby and then that drum fill is awesome going into that last verse. Ye, it's amazing. Yeah, like I said, PAT's really going for it on this one and I like that. I'm not opposed to it. Okay, so these. So that was the first four tracks that are recorded in New York at the same studio that they did blue and then we move into track five, which is across the sea, and that is where we're in sound city. So here we go across the sea. So I'm pretty sure that snare drum is six decibels louder than the lead vocal last track. It's a great example of like I like the snare drum. I would like it to be a little bit under where the lead vocal is, but maybe that's me being picky. So you know, probably more than any other song on this album, this one's the one that's going to get them the label of all the ist. Oh, your sexist, you're racist, your blah, blah, blah, Blah Blah. So I do want to talk about that. Let's first just talk about our feelings of the song. So, Kyle, what are your thoughts on across the sea? I like the song and I really like the the clip that you played there where they're building to the last chorus. I actually think vocally it's the closest thing to what I was used to with blue, you know, and I mean like the high harmony and blue with the blue album. You know what I mean? Yeah, it sounds it sounds really weezer in that moment, but yeah, I I dig it. The song is kind of crazy. It's real crazy, yeah, but but I still like it. Chris thoughts, Kyle wrapped it up really nice. I'll you know. I also think it's really fun that there's a little snaps that intro to the song. I like the snap. Yep, Oh, I'm sorry, that's the wrong notes, wrong notes. Oh yeah, that's it, that's not that's good life. Not, it's good life. I am apologies. Apologies. The okay. So that the notes I had on this song are that the Guitar Sola doesn't seem to stop. That sounds good. It just keeps going and I absolutely love it. And then your aside for the stuff kyle talked about, the shave my head and try to be a monk. That line always sticks out to me. The deliveries perfect, very genuine. This song is obviously very honest. So, yeah, that gets a LETTU. Yeah, so let's talk about I love the song. I think it's a great song.

I've always really liked it. It never it never made mean. I don't know so now. So obviously everyone's now judged by what is passable today, even though it happened, you know, twenty five years ago, and so you're judge through that Lens, which I think is ridiculous, obviously, because but anyway, he, even before this album came out, was like hey, you know, because I think there was some like buzz around. They the lyrics are not about surfing and stuff. Yeah, and and so he kind of like apologize at front like Hey, like, I think there's some stuff that, like, I'm being really honest about, and I wish I could find that quote. I'll try to put in the show notes, but you know, it's like I'm being really honest. I don't want to offend anyone, so I apologize if you know. So it was kind of like a hey, I don't want to bout. Just know that I'm like doing what right. Yeah, I think it was to the fan club. He was like pre warning him, like it's a little crazy. Yeah, but it's just a little bit. Just be yeah, but I'm just being honest about the feelings I was going through the time and I'm trying to like say exactly what I was feeling instead of trying to be like, oh, I can't say that for some reason, and I thought it was a good way to preface it. And I think it's you know, I think it's ridiculous to judge any art based on if it's acceptable or not, as far as like being polite or whatever. That's just my personal opinion. I just think it's I think it's still we don't ever, we don't ever go see a movie with like a really terrible character in it and and say that the writer is, I don't know, sex's racist, whatever the character was. Is that makes sense, and so I understand, like when someone's being honest in a song, what makes it that much different? But or like take someone like you know that just talking about their depression or something, or being suicidal or something like that. Obviously that would be terrible. You know, killing yourself is not a good thing, but if someone's writing a song about it, I wouldn't call them. Does that make sense? Like you don't get called out like that, but for some reason, if you're like you write about anything slightly Tabboo, which obviously it is a little taboo. But like, I think the the obviously, the story behind this is that he gets a letter from this Japanese fan and he has some really weird connection to it to the sense that like he obviously feels like this like the only person that knows him. Somehow, even though it's like this Japanese girl or whatever that he's never going to meet. He gives her songwriting royalties, by the way, for this because he like lifts straight up lines from her letter. That opening line is like word for word from that's why it's in like broken English, because like it's word for word from the letter. So she gets sorry and royalties they've never met a way, because he and I confirmed that too, by the way, in an interview with him that's in the sane, because people are like do you think she knows and stuff, and there was some interview where he was like, yeah, she knows because, like she gets royalties for like I've wrote her. I put her as a songwriter or whatever on it. I don't know how much, a percentage, but like at a million sales, even if it was one percent of the songwriting, that'd be ten grand ish, you know. So anyway, not nothing. So anyway. Everyone says it's racist and sexist and I'm like, I don't know. I read one thing that was like, oh, like using the broken English is racist. I'm like, he used her exact words from the letter and then gave her songwriting. It doesn't feel pejorative, you know. And in and also they always talk about the creepy verse or it like wonder if you touch yourself and stuff like that, and you know, yeah, that's a little creepy. It's an eighteen year old girl. Maybe, you know. We don't really know. I mean that's what he says in the song. I think probably to cover cover is ass but but you know, it's like the whole chorus literally he repeats over and over again, like I could never touch you, I think it'd be wrong, like right, right. So why is it creepy? Then he's literally just saying like he feels a connection with this person and like your letter meant a lot to me, just like my song means a lot to you. Like I think it's beautiful. Like I don't understand why people want to get on their little soap boxes and complain about like I don't know, and just try like I don't know. I think it's a sweet song and that, yeah, there's some stuff that kind of makes me go ohh, like that's, yeah, maybe something you think but don't say. But at the same time, like I said over again in the chorus he says, you know, I can never touch you, I think it'd be wrong, like in this than the course it gets repeated. So I just don't understand. I think that that's why I like it, because I picture like him in this kind of worst spot and this letter maybe kind of brings him out of it a little bit, and I think that's an interesting I've never heard another song like that, especially about like a fan. You know. Anyway, what are you guys thoughts on people now calling rivers whatever races, sexist, what creeper, you know, whatever the things are. I'm not saying he's not weird. He's a weird guy, obviously. Uh Yeah, but did it ever bother you like it bothers apparently somebody, these people? I guess. Like I said, I don't see it as being pejorative. So I'm like, I don't. I definitely don't view it as racism. I like, like you said, he's...

...quoting this letter and also I kind of got the same vibe on it, like he's acknowledging, Hey, this couldn't, this couldn't work out, or I would never, I would never do this, and also admitting this connection and so like creepy, yeah, but but like I don't get vibes that. I don't get vibes that he's doing anything wrong, just he's just being weird. Yeah, also, she wrote him the letter, like it's like, you know, like she whoa ontact to you know what I mean? It's not like it's not like he was like, I watched this girl at the park. I don't know, like it's like that's a different thing. I guess it. Also, also, I guess, I guess I'm a little bit desensitized because of the fact that, like, because of what, yeah, he's well, yeah, because it maybe, but because, I mean, I guess. So, like you're saying, he may have been covering himself, but as long as we can believe what he's saying about her being eighteen, you know, I don't like the idea of some older dude being with an eighteen year old girl. But but also, you know, it's it's better than a lot of disgusting things I've heard real people say in real life, you know what I mean. So, and and I don't. I'm not defending those things either or anything that he might be being creepy about. It's just I don't take it as I don't, I guess I don't take offense to it because one he says I could never touch you right, and the other is like, I guess I believe him when he's singing that. And so I've just heard heard so much worse in real life and people tell disgusting jokes that are so much worse than that. I feel like he's just telling us a story and and sharing how I feel. So, yeah, also get off with like every rapper in the world has said something worse than anything that happens in the song. You know what I mean? Not every rapper, that's not fair. A lot of them, though, and we don't ever get to hear about them being misogynist. You know what I mean? Yeah, sorry, there's a there's a handful. You're right, but you know what I mean. It's like we don't ever hear that their misogynist. It's like it's just weird to me how it's like fully acceptable in and or even like even just like the the like excess of the s music that was there of like, you know, yeah, girls in cars and stuff like that. It was like, I don't know, it just feels weird that like we you get this really honest song and then people crap on it and well, I think that's why. I think the reason they do is because it's it makes us feel awkward that he's being honest. Yeah, and maybe that you know what I mean. And so it's like, Dude, you're make him a feel weird. Stop. But that's to me what takes the power away from the bad people is he's not trying to be you know, controversial, like he's, yeah, brutal awes honest. Yeah, totally, and not only that, but I don't know it. Ne It just never hit me that way. Me Neither. No. And the fact and if you know anything about his songwriting style and you know anything about him, it just see it just fits perfectly with his personality. Oh, let me like, I could totally be I could totally see hanging out of the Party and I'm like, you know, with the four of us, like us three and rivers, and like we all like share like a funny story about something that happened like at a fast food draft rise, like Oh, let me tell you, guys, how funny story and your and we'd all be like, oh, that's actually super awkward. Another thing that I think is interesting is like with the whole obviously most of people that are going to complain about this probably didn't look into, I doubt it, any of this stuff. But like if he's basing the whole album on this opera and he's the character that's the antagonist in it, the bad guy, like he's admitting with the title of the album that like, I'm the bad guy, like this are not like okay. Things like but it's how I feel right now. It sucks, you know, and so to have that perspective of it too is you kind of you have to look at that as a whole and and I think even without that, like I said, it didn't bother me. I didn't know that forever. I didn't know that till maybe ten years ago or something like that. About I was like what the heck is Pinkerton? Like? I was like wait, why is it right? You know, I mean like I didn't know and so I don't know it anyway. That's kind of the first one. There will obviously get to some other ones where the they he gets in trouble with people for it, but I think it's a sweet song. I think it's it's sad that like some letter from someone he never met like meant enough. You know. That makes sense, like he was in that dark of a spot where that means that much. Well, that's that's that's sorry. That's what I was going to say. It's like I kind of see this as like a you know, I'm going to mess up the phrase, but like the ship's crossing, passing and never like shipping and night. Yeah, ships in the night. Yeah, because, because he's basically saying like this was so important to me and my...

...music is so important to you and this is never going to work, but at least I have this letter that you wrote me and you've got this song. Like that's kind of sweet. It is sweet, I think, like they were. It was mutually beneficial. Like the the letter meant a lot to him. The songs mean a lot to happen. That's why she wrote the letter in the first place. So I like it. I'm with you. I it's not conventional. No, it's definitely not conventional, not at all. It's and also it's a really cool song. Like I like the song in general. Take the lyrics away and everything, but the lyrics just really really lock it in for me. So, okay, let's go to the good life, means just made too of Christ. Let's go to you first, the good life. What are your thoughts? I like the snaps. Yeah, now we have the snaps. You don't say they're good. It's a great intro, like I really they have a lot of really good song intros on this album. I feel like it's snaps are a good way to do it, for sure. They do a lot of song, a lot of songs that start off with just crazy feedback and you know, you you couldn't recognize one over the other. But yes, don't want to be an old man anymore. That one gets more real to me as I get older. By the way, guys, that's because, you know, when we first started this, weird little babies, and so I was like, yeah, they we're never goota be old. But yeah, the also there's a little stands at where screws the screw this crap of had it. I love it. Yeah, I've heard it again. That I know that. That another place. I just wanted to say I got Matt Man. I miss you, although it's kind of cool that that that Weezer like style is like frozen in time, like it just it just stopped there, like it didn't get overused or like right, because, like he couldn't have done that on the green album. No, no, and it would have, you know what I mean, it would have played out like yeah, so, okay, so well this maybe, Kyle, go ahead and tell us your thoughts on the good life, and then I've got a question for you. I absolutely love the hook on this song. I love the intro guitar part one of my favorite things about it is in the chorus he's talking about you know, I don't want to be an old man anymore. But like, if you, if you read the lyrics to this song, it sounds like a guy who doesn't have the current words to describe things. You know what I mean? Like sounds out of touch. He sounds out of touch, which I think is on purpose. Yes, I do too, right, and I love that. Like the let's see, tell me who's that Funky Dude? Yeah, like shaking booty, making sweet love, like right, yeah, dude, you sound like an old man. And this song is it's Meta. You know, he's really good at that. He does that throughout his songwriting, I feel like. I feel like he's there's tons of weezer songs where it's like just enough off, where it like pork and beans. is another one that's kind of like that. Oh yeah, and I mean he's got a bunch of them. They're like that. I love what is the troublemakers? Another really good one, a rare good one, from that red album that I actually do really like freaking love that song. But that song is fantastic, and so is the everybody get dangerous and life, talking about his kid coming to him asking if we can play with these new Ninja the words, like I love those. Are Those Quirky lyrics. WHORRE. I'm just like this is like you're the only guy that gets away with this being the lyric in the song and he does it so well it's almost unfair. I mean, hear me, hear me. I want sugar in my tea, like if you if my guitar play, wrote that down. Is like here's the lyrics that they can be like that's not great, but he pulls it off. It's perfect. Yeah, he really does sell it in the perfect way. Something about the way he sings. They well, I think because they are pretty genuine, like he's not trying to like, I don't know, he's trying to be ironic in some way. No, I think it's great. And you wine is so freaking hard, though, like for it is actually get it from your brain onto you know, the tapes or whatever in the studio, Electric Lady, or wherever they are at this point in the record. Like that's almost impossible for the layman. He does it so effortlessly. Yeah, okay, is there any reason this song should not have been a monster hit, as big of a hit as any...

...of the songs from blue album. Like it's a great song, it's got a great chorus, with a video. I don't see how this, this done go platinum immediately. Like this is a pretty song, it's a party song, it's a great song and it and people like it and it's it's relatable in the sense that like, people like, people like to sing about that kind of thing, which is why people like to sing the sweater song at the top of their long S. it's like people enjoy singing along these songs. Yeah, I think that. I think literally this album as is, with just like hey, can we do a video spike Jones video for good life, like I don't see how it's not as. I don't see how that's not a hit. I really I don't it. It doesn't make sense to me. I get why some of the rest this record is kind of you know, maybe you don't have three singles from it, like I mean they have three or four from blue album. So maybe that doesn't happen. But you know, and not. That's not crazy, though, for a software Il'm just have one big hit habits all the time. The sophomore slump, but get one good single out of it. No doubt it comes to mind. I think they're follow up like their record it was. It wasn't commercially like Saturn. Want the Saturn or Saturn. But yeah, no, yeah, I did one. It had one or two songs on. Yeah, I think there were hits. Yeah, I don't know. It's I just think it's a great song. I don't know why third verse is so good. It should have been just should have been a hit. It it this is one of those songs where I'm just like more people should know this exist and they don't, because I've looked at the spotify places pretty batterly hells, isn't it? Well, okay, so let's talk about spotify play. So the the this one has more than some of the it has seventeen million and some most the resting is hovering like five, seven eight, something like that. I'll scorchros twenty five million, but like that's half of what, like their Africa cover has sixty one million, you know what I mean. So it's like an and an island in the sun. It's like two hundred million or something. I mean it's like it's insane to have that many plays when your album had been out for fifteen years before spotify was a thing. Not a thing, but you know, at least popular. So you know it's not the hit, but I mean so, I mean it does get more plays than it's in the top three on on the album, but I just think it's so good. I think that they should have been monster hits. This is a good time to bring up. I don't know why it's a good time to bring up. I just want to the the silent life skit about weezer great skin. I why I wanted to get that t shirt they made. I just my gosh, it's so funny. So I I when they when that skit happened, I was like I am every person in this skit somehow at the same time, like I feel like I am simultaneously defending the first two albums as being kind of perfect, but then also defending some of the new stuff. I'm also the person that's like hey, guys, remember yellow card? I'm everyone in the skit. I'm literally every single person in it and I just think of it all the time when because this is that is the argument of Weezer. It's almost like even I admit when they like put out a crap saying, which because they've put out some serious crap sandwiches since then. But I'm also the guy that's been like they've also put out some really good stuff that people like to crap on just because it's fun to crap on. Bands like that are still doing it, you know, thirty years later, sometimes just because you can. So I just thought it was an interesting point to bring up because, like I said, I think this could have been as big of a hit as anything from from blue and or as big as some of the stuff that's come since then. Like I said, Iland the sun is a huge hit for them. Hash pipes a huge hit, like green alm was very like the opposite of this as far as not just production and, you know, it just being a straight pop record, Guitar Solo follows the melody, it's all super formulaic. But it was also huge for them. They, you know, it was like a big record and it had a lot add singles and you know, that's what you get for not appreciating Pinkerton Art. Well, it's also what they get for not pushing it. It's both people are to blame here. Is What my point is. Is that the fans? I feel like not the true fans. The true fans love this album, but you know, the general public maybe like to crap on them. You know when this album came out. Now if it's beloved. But it's just interesting to me that, like it was so hated on by critics and a like. So, okay, let's go to track seven, a fun one. Else Scor Chow my head out of the same goes a bank and you would keep my things. But that's just us to dream. Now it's all bring home the turn. Kyle, what are your thoughts on L scort show? This song freaking...

...rocks so hard. The chorus is like one of the most singable things of all time. Yep, like with your friends at the top of your lungs. No one has to know how to sing to sing along to this. No, and I love that. I mean I'm like excited talking about it. It just freaking rocks. And also the lyrics to this. Every single time I hear like the craziness of I asked you to go to the Green Day concert. You said you never heard of them. How cool is that? And like I laugh and then he's like so I went to your room and read your diary. And Yeah, Whoa, here's another line where we get called in another song where he's getting called a creep and stuff. But it's honest. It is honest and also like the the like inner conflict in the part that you just in the part that you just play. Let's see, I wish I could get my head on the sand because I think we'd make a good team and you'd keep my finger nails nails clean. But that's just a stupid dream, you know, like he's saying these things that he wants and then like kind of screwing it up in a way. And Man, I think this song rocks and I agree with you. The song before this could have been a big hit, and I know that L Scor Chow like, I guess it was kind of a hit. Yeah, it was a single, but you're not. But man, it didn't get as big as it should have, and it's just like this is a song that I want to like crank in a car with my buds. This is the first time we get double time. I was this like the only time we get double time on a Weez Rot. I'm pretty sure it may exist somewhere later, because they've been very pretie with a musical mad but this is the the only notable time. I would say. Yeah, Chris, what are your thoughts on good life? I mean do good life. I'll score show. Reading things wrong. Okay, so I want to tell a very short story about the first time that I really absorbed this song, and it was my dad had. My Dad had a business trip to Oakland right after I graduate high school in two thousand and then I figured out that why I was there, warped tour, San Francisco was playing, so I bought tickets. And then after I bought tickets, guess what happens? This is when Weezer announced there come back and they were going to start by playing a few shows on the vans warp tour. So I had always wanted to see them live and I remember like it's yesterday, like because I was really far back and things were really crazy, crazy, and I remember when they plays the song, I was like what is this song? It's so good. The ride symbol for the pre chorus, the bell, and I absolutely loved it. Like this was not, you know, this is before like jat and Danny like got me to fall in love with it. Again, but it was kind of I was, you know, the green album is about to come out and I just remember thinking like I had to figure out what album this song is on. This is awesome. Yeah, and it's also just like when our tweezer band plays this one. I think this is the one that we get the most. I mean undone is it gets nuts, but people love seeing along the songs. So the chiles point it is the most sing alongable chorus maybe of all time. YEA, especially IAUSE. We get a few drinks in them. They're definitely saying, and allecially, that yeah, this and undone are you can basically just put the mic in the I don't need to do anything on these songs. But I do love singing this song. It is so much fun and I think his vocal performance on this is like perfect, like it's raw, like that last chorus where he gets quiet, I mean not for the last verse. You know that. Kyle just said the lyrics to I just I love the character of his voice and then it rises up. I just I love it. I think it's it's really good. It's a really good song. It's it's definitely the simplest song on the whole record. As far as like it is pretty simple, but it's good and it's yeah, it's a fantastic chorus, so sing along able and I love good sing along chorus and I just I do love the I've it definitely felt like him in the bridge that I can't talk about it, I've got to sing about it. YEA, that's such a good it's such a great like songwriter dilemma of like I'm terrible at talking to people, but here's how I feel in a song. I can do it there but I can't do it elsewhere. It's kind of a weird thing that we're notoriously bad at. It's like, Oh, so you can say how you feel in a song but not in real life. It's a guess. That's that's awkward. So yeah, I think it's a good song. It's definitely a banger on the album and definitely one that I remember immediately being like wow, this song is really good. A Chris, it's interesting you brought up your we. Is that the only time you've seen them or have you seen them more than that? I no, no, I definitely saw them many more times. Okay, was that time was very special for obvious reasons? Yeah, because it was. It was there kind of come back because, but you'll keep in...

...mind, like they just disappeared for five years right at this time, like there could have very well just never been alweezer album again. Yeah, it was. It was very interesting that they were coming back in the fact they chose warped to her to kind of come back was cool too. Kyle. Have you seen them live? I have, and real quickly I just want to say none of us had mentioned it. The freaking guitar part on this song is so cool. Yeah, are far? Oh, yeah, no, it's it's a Hooky, Hooky asshole. Yep, that's great. Everyone can play that drum intro. Everyone being boom boom kick. It's like everyone can play it. It's fun to have something like that that everyone it's like they can get a barretantly recognizable, even though it's just hitting the different parts of the drums that aren't simples. I mean undone is only slightly more complicated and very similar. You can't not do it and everyone knows exactly what's coming. It's it's fun to have a drum part like that. That's not very cool, but it's immediately recognizable. I don't know. It's interesting. Anyway, we gonna say cow. Other than that part, I'm Oh, yeah, so I I have seen them. It's been a long time since I've seen them. I saw them like I don't know, I I don't think I've ever say. I don't think I saw them in like the Pinkerton years. I saw them after blue and then I saw them. Oh, you saw them early. Oh Yeah, and then I saw them. They played a festival here, I think, like like back in the day, like a x thing and that size. Say, I saw them then and then in I think the most recent time I saw them was touring. Did they come close for Hurley? I don't know. I think they've played a couple casinos around here the last couple times I've seen okay, I've only seen them once. It was on my nineteen birthday in two thousand and two. That's the only time I've seen them. So they play. Um, I went down to Dallas and saw them like some amphitheater. It was them and Dashboard and Sparta. Oh Wow, so it's pretty good show and my birthday, so that's kind of fun. But that's it. That's the last time I've seen him. I'd like to go again because my daughters are actually really into wheezer, so it would be a fun one to take my Kiddos to actually, but haven't gotten around to it, obviously. Anyway, sidetrack, let's kill way. So, so, noney, none of you guys were at tenacious Dy do meet world? No, now, I couldn't go for some reason. So Sad. And you know I like never missed Jimmy eat world, but for some reason, I don't know why, I couldn't go to that, but I couldn't for some reason, because I would have. Why would I not be at that show? Yeah, it just hasn't worked out timing wise. Even the Times they've come around here and played it like casinos, I'm like out of town or something and I haven't been able to go. Plus I hate the idea of driving to a casino for a short set. But that's why I conceiving an Oklahoma Good. Yeah, no, I I like to keep my money. Can't win if you don't play, dude, that is true. You also don't lose if you don't play. So I was always loses. Everyone knows that. How yeah, that's half much. That's what I've heard. Do you're right. Okay, so let's Oh sorry, let's talk about this in Al scored show. Obviously more lyrics, I guess, because he's talking about a Japanese girl again. He's I mean he's obviously tracted the Asian women's married to one or half Japanese ones. Anyway, again it's kind of like it like really, we're going to make a big deal of him, like calling out that he's like attracted to by racial people. But yeah, I mean, like is that like why is that wrong? It's like he's literally saying like Oh, you, like you do it to me every time, as in like, you know, get me. I don't know, it's just again I don't understand why people are so offended. Maybe I am missing something, but why? I could see how it could be problematic if, like if maybe he was like a known womanizer or like saying pejoradive things about Japanese people or like just what's the word I'm looking for, like just just always objectifying them. But I mean him just saying that that's what he's into doesn't seem wrong to me. It sounds like me with curly headed girls. It's like clearly all boy, clearly had a style, like I had like three, four girlfriends that had curly Brenett hair, like I clearly have a thing. I've never dated a blond. Doesn't mean I'm anti blond, you know. I mean, it's just like he likes Japanese girls. That's fine. Is that? I don't know that, because that a bad thing. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems weird to freak out over. But obviously this is another song and then we get into the next one, which is another one where you know people are upset about. So let's Talk About Pink Triangle here. It is quick, Kyle.

What are your thoughts on Pink Triangle? I think that the song rocks. I do think it's weird, I because I'm like and also maybe it speaks to this the like I feel like there's a theme here, right, that that he experiences a lot of things in his mind before they come to fruition, you know what I mean, like he's plotting things out before taking a chance, because I can tell you, although I have lesbian friends, there's no chance I could have thought that they were into me. Right that you can tell, like he's getting out with romantic yes, completely, and so, like I think it's weird in that way because I just think it's such a ridiculous thing for that to happen, like, Oh, I had no idea you're a lesbian. I'm sure it does, though, you know what I mean. It's like, does it? I don't know. Don't happen to me specifically. I guess I have, I A. I have a wonderful lesbian friend named Sammy. Sammy, if you're listening, what's up? And there is no chance I could have ever confused that she liked me more than chicks. Well, I mean I just think it's I just like that he like clearly the lyrics of this or like he's going, like he just like sees this girl and yeah, you know, just a slight connection with her. It's fantasy. COULD BE A conversation. I mean it's probably at Harvard for I mean I mean my guests. Yea, she may have just said high to him. Yeah, I mean literally, it might be that where you have a class or something like that and you're just like you until he's like getting way ahead of himself on yeah, on this and the high. That's what I like about it is that it's yeah, it's so like I don't think he made this up, like I don't think he thought like this would be a funny song. I think this really happened because, you know, I in no way I totally think it like in and I think that's what I like. I can see why you'd be offended by this song if you thought he just like if you just made it up and it didn't really happen, like you'd be like that's pretty try or something. But you know, I think this really happened. And again, like people are like, oh, how could you ask someone that? You ask someone to be straight as like that's not what he's doing. He's just he's bummed out that she's not and so she's not going to be into him. He likes her and she's not obviously not going to like him back, and you know, and he's bummed about it, like that's okay. It would be an also be okay if that was just the case with anyone, like he likes someone and they're bummed that they don't like him back. This is just for a different reason, and then it would be of like flat rejection of like I'm just not attracted to you because it's not attract than that right, well, yeah, I mean, I guess so at least. It's like I'm not attracted to any of you, like, I could never be. Yeah, you're and I think the the, the, it's got some really clever lyrics in it too, like I love the I think the course is great. I love the like she would never go with me if I were the last girl on earth. Like, I think that's just an interest. It's a funny like. I think it's it's interesting and I don't think in any way he's trying to change someone. I just think you people read way too far into stuff sometimes, because I don't get that vibe at all from this. Well, I think also it goes back to what we were saying just a little bit ago, like I don't think he I don't think there's any any proof of him not being a good dude. Right, right, I think certainly weird guy. I've not read anybody. I'm just saying, like yeah, and so because of that, I think I think it's safe to say that we can trust that. Like, he, he, he got the buggy ahead of the horse. He saw someone thought they were cute and and like created this false reality. Yeah, yeah, like he created this false narrative in which he was going to hook up with this person and marry them. Right, she's also absurd, right, right. It literally that far ahead of himself. He's rightly talking about or I'M gonna settle down with this girl and and I feel like there is a much stronger case, on all of these things we've talked about so far on this episode, for him being maybe a little mentally unstable than anything else. Right. Yeah, I think that's totally fair to say that, like he's not thinking normally and he's probably not really like he clearly does not seem like socially. Doesn't seem like that's as bad, you know, like he's not. Yeah, social ques are...

...probably not great for it. Like he's clearly kind of a recluse and kind of a I don't know, I don't know, I'm obviously at all. I'm just saying, like, judging by the patterns of behavior and the weird stuff. I read thing one time where, like, for meet and greet stuff that they kind of like had to do but he didn't really want to do, they set up a ping pong table and he played ping pong. Like that's like he was like, if I'm gonna like have to meet these people or whatever. Like I need something to like do. Like we're playing ping pong. That seems like a comfortable social setting for me. But just like standing and talking to people, you know, and so like they be playing ping pong and stuff like. I just thought that was so interesting that like that was in the rioter or something. We gotta have a Ping Pong table. So that would be like a great way to job interview people when the panamics of our just have a ping pong table set up. Like Hey, so tell me what a little about yourself. It's you're right, I'd probably feel way more comfortable so much else awkward to be doing something with your hands. And Yeah, I think you need yeah, you either need some some like food, snacky stuff. You know, that helps if you can have like something you're in or cheeseboard, you know, something like that, or pink pop's a shark or Shark cootery board. Yeah, that's a face. That word. I don't know. It's too hard at meat and cheese. That's what I call it. And you know it's cutting board with snacks on it. But I do really like the song. It's a great it's a great song and it's again a fun one to sing like. It's, I feel, like a lot of this album. I mean that's what I think they do really well, and rivers does really well as like writing these parts that people want to sing along with. I think that's kind of superpower and the easiest but coolest guitar intro that like, anyone can play. Yep, it's a it's a I do like the again, another really good intro to a song. I really I mean a lot of these. I wanted to start at the beginning of the track because a lot of them really have good intros and and and I really do like the the how the to go into each other too, like out of out of L Scorcho into pink triangle, is a good transition as well. Let's go to falling for you, track nine. Chris Mounier thoughts on falling for you. You know this. This is another big and small song where the versus are kind of chill, like a little laidback, and then the don't, don't boom. Yeah, it's went another song. It's Super Fun to play, although very hard. This is the song, like has no repeating. It's a bunch of key changes. I just have to chart it out because I'm like, there's just no way I'm going to get this right, even though I've listened to this song so many times. It's something different about like playing it live, for sure. So, but it is a good song. It's all over the place. Yeah, you can sing along with it and have fun listening to this song and but, and it's got it. This is a perfect second to last song because it kind of ties in, like, all the themes of the album and it's what did you say? Managed chaos, barely control. Yes, I think this one just almost gets just a it's just chaos. Yeah, that guitar lines going throughout that whole verse. It's just kind of like, I don't know that it like he'd ever played that before. They laid this down along like design. I'm just going to keep noodle it on this, I guess, and in tune, but don't wear out if it works. But yeah, it's a good song and I agree with Chris. I think it's a good penultimate song. Second last. That's my fancy word for the day. Kyle. What are your thoughts on falling for you? Great Song. It rocks. I love the I love at the end of the chorus. The I do about anything to get the hell out of live. Or yeah, maybe I would rather settle down with you. I think those are that's a funny line. And Yeah, man, I I really did it, and I that Little Solo that to me, I don't know, like the guitar tone on that Solo. It sounds wheezery, you know, and didn't sound it doesn't sound so crazy, but I don't know, I like this whole record. To me, it's weird because I remember listening to the blue album and I remember all of my friends like we could...

...sing it front to back, right like everybody knew it. And and what's weird is now I recognize that Pinkerton is way more sing along abowl. Yet not everybody knew it and that's kind of a bummer. Yeah, I think that the songs on both the albums are really, really good, but I think that these ones are a step above the blue album, which is not like. I'm not saying the songs on the blue immer not good. I'm just saying that like these are as good, if not a little bit better. Like I think there are really good, sing along able songs. I'm with you on that one. I agree. Okay, so that brings us to the last track, which is butterfly. And, as we mentioned, you know obviously Pinkerton, the butterfly thing, the whole opera. You know, this all makes sense a little bit more for the last track. So here we go. Can need fantasy life of chasing the fly. I'm sorry for what I did. I did want my body to me to wanted to do your home hell every time open down one. I think it's the goes. I mean there are literally chords in there that you kind of misses on the first you know, and then like moves to it, but it's sweet. It's like a it's like a nice little raw thing. Chris, what are your thoughts on butterfly? Yeah, as long as you don't like really read the lyrics too much, it's a really sweet song and then start diving and you're like I always should just sit. No, I wish. I just didn't know that the word, the B word, makes an appeared to the song that it just doesn't seem to fit at all. That that line. If you're a dog, and I'm a I right, yeah, it's that line a dog. Then you're yeah, line always stuck out really weird to me and I just don't care for it. Not Because of the bad word. I don't care about that. It just like, no, does feels lad words all the time. What was that said? Yeah, you say bad words all the time when people lily, because I sometimes we bleep out the yeah, that's not your hang out a curse word, but it's because it's funnier when it's bleeped out. That's way more rely on Horn's night. Yeah, all I'm saying is, like I feel like that the song didn't need that line, but that's just like me like off on a tangent. I mean it's a it's a really sweet song and the perfect way to out and the album in light. Blake said, it is so freaking raw. His his voice is cracking, I think in a few parts, like it's almost like he was just like I'm going to play his one time. Maybe he did. Maybe he literally is like I'm just going to give it my best first shot in that and pat, you're going to kind of play the kick drum kind of a little bit. On some posts, like you see him like looking around like this is okay, and I I might doing the kick drum. Yeah, keep it up, but I'm following you. Hold on, wait, hold on one second. Okay, that's not normally how this works. Coward thoughts on butterfly. Okay, so hear me out on this. I will hear go. I I like this song just fine, but I cannot help when I listen to it but think that rivers had written this song. Are they these lyrics, and they just had the MIC's rolling and the guitar player started playing so something and he just he made up the melody and attempted singing it for the first time right then and there, and they're like, you know what, that's good, let's keep it, because it just there's something there. It has this quality of like not quite fitting for me. And and I don't mean on the album, I just mean like the lyrics into into the melody and the song. And I like it just fine. It's it's just it's got an awkward feel for me. That's fair. I mean I like it. I think it's a good inning track and it's it does feel like, even for a simple acoustic song, there's like, like he hangs on that chord for a while for like and and and I guess I didn't say that I do. I maybe, maybe. What I would say is this. I actually really like the lyrics and I would say I like the lyrics better than I like the song. That's fine, that's it. That's fine opinion. I like the song. I don't really have anything specific to say about it. I like it as the inning track. It's not something I'm going to throw on a mixtape necessarily. You know, it's not like but I think it was a interesting way to end the tune, especially are in the album when we haven't had anything really anywhere near this style on the full of the first album and this one. You know, as far as everything else is pretty rock and there's not a lot of like lull and so to have like a little bit of a lull here and, like I said, obviously the kind of book end of the...

Pinkerton Butterfly character names and etc. Obviously that's what he was going for here. That's the reason it's the last song, the reason he wrote it. I don't think there's any you know, it's obvious that that's what was all about. So that's why it's the last track and and yeah, I think it's a fine decision, but I'm kind of with you. It's not like it doesn't rock my face off like the rest of the record. So yeah, it's fair point. Okay. So let's talk about Oh, yeah, can you can? Of course. I believe it was Carl that played the percussion in this song. Was It really? I believe. So, okay, that's interesting. Made that note because we were making that joke about pat and I remember there was something about the songs. I was looking it up and yes, I believe, and it was definitely. Report it for am Oh and this it may be one take. I'm not I'm having trouble finding that to be the would not surprise me like at all. Is it was. It was like yeah, so this one is interesting. Just I just wanted to let the let the people out there now. So good news is, even though we're almost coming up on two hours, I feel like let's just let's just blow through it, let's just do this thing, do let's let's this just gonna be one episode. We've now decided that it's like, you know, thirty at night. Okay. So does it hold up? I mean again, we asked this every time, but I mean in some ways it's better than it was when it came out. I guess, because everyone hated it when it came out. Is that a fair thing? Is that the first time we've done one like this? It holds upper. It's still a whole. Yes, upper keeps going. Does it hold up? I would say a Doy. It holds up. Yeah, I mean I think it's pretty obvious that it holds up, since everyone had to retract their original reviews and right new ones. That's normally a good sign that, like, your album aged better then maybe people originally thought it would. So no problem. Do you think it has the same impact? This is kind of my follow up question to this question, since that question is boring almost on every episode that we do, because we all obviously like the albums. Do you think it has the same impact on musicians if it's as commercially successful as the blue album, as I like burp again, whatever that was. No, I don't. That's the Mystique to it. That's what made it more interesting and there's just a certain segment of artists that are, I don't think in tray can train as the right word, but you know that what I'm talking about, like you're right, something about an album that, if it would have just been so commercially successful. I I am a hundred percent certain it wouldn't have had the same effect it. I don't think a guy like Jim Atkins like goes all in on a record. I don't know that everyone else likes. I just don't think he does. I just don't think he does. Yet I think they're I think you're right. I think there's a lot of artists. Yeah, I agree. I don't think it. I don't think it does has the impact it does on bands and their music and lyrics and things like that and kind of what, because now it's like literally and everyone's top ten as far as like email albums, like you go look at like whatever, all the different list like this album is in the top ten, two hundred and twenty, if they're listing the top five, thousand one hundred and whatever the list is. You know, not that those matter. I mean I'm not saying those are the definitive things, but it's in every one of those lists now. So it's just interesting to me that like to have that big of a flip because there's so many other albums on that list that were from people that, like, you know, we're super obscure all the time. They were always obscure. They were very small bands. You know, Sunday, they real estate. was not a huge band. They were successful, but like in American football and these bands, like they weren't few gauzy. They these weren't huge bands, you know, but like we're was a huge band when the blue album was out. And so for their second record to get kind of panned and then all sudden it's in like all of these like most influential record list, it's just interesting to me. But I think it doesn't have the same impact if it was commercially successful, which is kind of a weird thing because you don't take away everything else. No production value increase, nothing, just like hey, they shot a couple videos, had a couple big singles people liked. Yeah, I think you're right. Okay, is it their best album? This one's fun, I think. Kyle. What do you? What do you think? Well, so, I imagine this is probably going to be tougher for you guys because because, like, I think you guys have dove deeper into these records and probably had more fun playing things. Yeah, that I have. So I will say that I think it's their best one. Chris, what are your what are your thoughts? Chris, it's good at you first. I never think about this question of it. It's because I want it to be pure...

...and unfiltered when I answer, but it does have the side effect of me getting all the way to the point where you ask it and not being ready or sure, and I don't I don't think it's fair to say it's their best record. But like, if you were to chop up like what makes a record great into like five different categories, this would win four out of five, I think, for this Youngan. But they've been so prolific to a lot of the bands we talked about. They've got maybe five full length records or six, because me like a thousand albums. So it's definitely has so many alms and and a lot of them are not that great, like for the whole album. Like it like they're, you know, no song for Song, some very bad. So have like two good songs. Some of them don't have to get songs. Because I think we're great. Yeah, because for we like the the main albums for Weeezer, that like kind of you kind of stuck everything up against our blue album, Pinkerton, the green album, maladroit, red album a little bit, but after that it starts to get a little hazy, right and and so yeah, but I I feel like blue just edges out chest barely. But they're so different and so beautiful in their own little ways it's really hard to compare them. That's not answer. For those we counting. They have sixteen full length albums, one of which is the cover album. So even if you take that one, they've got fifteen original albums. That's a lot of albums. Like to put it in perspective. Third Eye Blind, who whose album came out the same year. I'm pretty sure ninety six or ninety seven their first one. I think they only have six, so they've ten less albums. You know, that's like, you know, they read a lot of music, but I think, as I heard Billy Joel once say about Elton John, like just because like maybe you shouldn't have so many albums, like, you know, it's kind of like maybe it's good to stop sometimes and really think about, you know, is this good enough to put out? Kind of thing, because they've definitely had some Freakin stinkers, but I think it's it's it's a pretty much a tie for me between blue and Pinkerton. They're different enough. I think the Pinkerton songs are a little better overall, but the productions worse. And so that's kind of the fifth, if you said four out of five things. It kind of like it doesn't have that production thing that I like and the controlled chaos is I enjoy it, but there are still times where I'm just like, why is that snare louder than the vocal? You know, I'm like that's just a bad like that's not a creative decision or like a Oh, let's play this live in the room. That's like a it's a fader, like I don't understand, like who thought that that was what should happen there? And so there's still things about this album like that that drive me crazy because, but I mean, it's endearing now a little bit and I have a few albums like that that I like, I kind of love, and I don't think you could make this a polished version of this album that works as well. I just don't think you could do it. So, but it'd be nice to meet just a little closer to blue just a little bit. I'm not asking it to be green level production or anything that came after that I'm just like saying, you know, let's spend just a little more time on some of this stuff. So I would say tie. I don't think I can pick between those two. I also really like I mean I think they've got out. People think that those are the only two good wheezer albums. You're wrong. I actually I think the green album's good. It's like it's it is what it is. It's a pop, Yep rock record. It's straightforward. It's got great songs. You're the red album, despite half of it being trash, like half of it's really good. Maladroy, which is the album that came after green album, is freaking great and has awesome guitar soul blows and I really like recently, like I said that. Okay, human one I really like, and I really like their white album too. I think those are kind of on the way down. Once really good, when I'm really good. It has like two songs that I'm like a little less into and the rest of it's fantastic. I really like it. I think they've overall. I wish they would just like in they've, instead of releasing two albums that half of each. You're good. Ditch those halfs that aren't good and make one record. And if they did that they'd have like eight albums instead of fifteen, but they'd all be really good. Yeah, that's kind of my opinion on the things that have come since. Okay, is it their most important album? This is a fun question on this one because of how it wasn't embraced first and then it became so Chris, what are you what are your thoughts? Do you think it matters more than the other albums? No, you think blue album matters more. I think the great album that. I think green album matters the most. Yes, Oh, I like this take. Please tell us more. The whole the whole second phase of the career is because of the anger and hate he felt about this record. Any quote, unquote,...

...foonded in on the green album and made a unfeeling pop record that he literally was like every Guitar Solo was going to just be the melody of the first. I hate you, I hate all of you, and you're gonna love it, you're gonna drink it up and it's gonna be great and I so that's my that's my take. I like that take. Actually, that's a really that's an interesting take. But here's my counterpoint to that. Does that still make this the most important one, because it is the catalyst for river's chicken egg thing? Like definitely, like, yeah, it's kind of a chicken egg thing, for sure. That is really interesting, though. I like, I like that take, Cole. What do you think? Is it their most important one? No, I say blue is okay, so we're all going to have a different answer on this. I say yes because I think it inspired so many other bands and it inspired so much music in the vein of this that I think that we got a lot more out of it. That's like it's kind of intangible, though it's not. It's not like it's not important to the success of their band, for sure, other than for your point, Chris, to say that like, oh well, it was the catalyst that created the green album, and then sort of your right, the second the whole, not even second half. I mean literally, they green albums two thousand and one. That's only that's not even a decade into their career and the word. To me it's half. You're right, but green album is twenty years old at this point. So yeah, I think I think we all kind of but I think we're all right too. I know that sounds really weird. Yeah, in some way like it's all correct because like the Blue Oum obviously launches them, this album does not have the success up from want, but obviously then gets more critical praise than anything in the long run and becomes the catalyst for doing green and basically everything that comes after it. I do kind of I'm bummed a little bit that we don't get the honesty ever again really yep, to the level that we get on this album, although I really like a lot of their stuff. Obviously I'm in a weezer cover band, like we like a lot of weezer songs, but we don't really get this level of lyrics. I feel like after this album, so kind of over now. He put his whole soul out there and everybody was just like we despise it. So yeah, and I also think hide that soul. Yeah, keep that in the old but it's also interesting to me that then people hated on green to it's like we're like, what are you happy with? Do you just wanted to keep making the blue album over and over again? I hate that too, you know what I mean? I hate when people are like, Oh, well, we didn't want you to do Pinkerton, but we also don't want you to do green. You know, it's like, you know, why don't you just stop giving your opinion? Like I'm kind of like what night, when people just want people to carbon copy the first thing that they liked about a band, it's boring and it almost never works out. Like you just can't do that. You can't. It's like lightning and bottle. You can't do it. I don't know, it's that's my rant. I guess. Sorry. I just I hate that people hate on stuff so much, haters when it's clearly good, like the like this album did not change. People's opinions about changed or I almost think that they kind of had an attitude about it one way or I mean, it wasn't successful, for it was their own fault. It wasn't successful, but that doesn't have anything to do with the reviews of it. You know, that's not that part. But okay, what about desert island songs? This is going to be fun, because it's not gonna be possible. Chris, can you pick two or three that you would take on your desert island from this album? I mean it's almost impossible to do this, but if I had to pick three, I would go like really basic and just do tired of sex, good life. I'll score show, but only because I'm like okay, I guess, though, if I got a pick, yeah, if I got a pick kyle or by you, he's been probably thinking about it for the last two hours. I have. I have like we never so we never talked about this stuff beforehand, but I did tell you guys that I like thought I had my list and then I listened again. I was like, I don't have my desert island list. I'm kind of like come that, I don't make it until we get here. But so I'll say. I'll say for sure I'll score show and the good life, but I think no other one just barely cinches it out over, why bother for me? So Nice. Okay, let me think. If I have to pick three, my goodness, it is hard. I think I'm with you guys on good life. That has to be in there for me. So that's going to be on all three of our list. I think my other two are probably why bother in paint triangle, but it's really hard. I might sub paint triangle with across the sea,...

...though. That's kind of the hard part for me, because I really do like that song too. So I think if I have to pick three, I'm probably going why bother good life paint triangle, and it takes part of that is because I also in in Tweezer, the weezer cover band, like it's those are really fun to sing live too. It's really it's really fun to like like this is in no way a thing where like we are getting any sort of like, oh, we're cool because we're in a cover is like, hey, we're big weezer fans to let's all sing these songs together. That's kind of an atmosphere. It's a party kind of things, and those ones are are really fun. Everyone's singing along, it's fun and I like that kind of fun atmosphere and anyone listening, like if you can figure out a way to like at get that energy into like you're original music, like it is probably been our most successful project to day, like it has been the most consistently fun, the biggest money maker, and it's because it's just genuine and we're always having fun and having a good time. So that's the energy you have to capture. It's a beautiful thing. The funniest thing I gotta I got to tell this before we wrap this thing up, but the funniest thing about being in a weezer cover man for like twenty years now is that for the first literally we start playing in two thousand and three. So weezer is a successful band by two thousand and three, for sure. They've got huge hits. Green album, you know, they got lots of hits. And every show that we would play, basically this started as a thing. Chris and I were in a real band, but we didn't want to blow our local draw on our band but more than once every two or three months. So we only played locally like every two three months. But a friend of ours band was coming in town, we would do this tweezer thing so that like we could bring a crowd in for them but not have to waste like our original music crowd kind of thing, because obviously that was how we were like book and Tours and stuff. So this is a way that we could like play a show, have fun, give the money to the band that's touring. And that's kind of how it started and then it kind of it turned it morphed into kind of a annual thing we did or whenever for special occasions. But every time, for like the first ten years, some guy would come up to me and be like man, those songs are so good, you guys should be on the radio. I mean like some old guy or someone. And I like every time and we're all right, and I'm like, guys, we're not selling gold. I can hear it where we are coming. We are playing the hits like we are playing like these are all most of them are all singles. Like that's basically what we do. Is Like we know all of blue and Pinkerton and then we know basically almost every single that's come out after that and and some deep cuts and stuff too. But like, and every time I have to be like Gett know that we're cover band, like these are not our songs, these are these have been on the radio. They are they're a big band. They've sold millions of records. But I mean it literally. It hasn't happened a while, but it literally happened for the first ten years we played as a band. Every single show someone would be like you guys are so these songs are so good, you're going to be, you're going to be, you're going to make it. I'm like, well, you know, okay, thanks to a guess. I eventually just start saying thanks. But an interesting kind of fun thing. What about nobody's perfect? Do we have a song on here that you guys think is bad or you cut off the record? No, you don't even feel that way about butterfly or anything, Kyle. No, no, because like leave it. Yeah, I'd leave it there. I mean I agree with what you said about it, like it's a good end and the things I dislike about it. You know, it's it's pretty easy to pick out our to criticize that song when, like, I feel like almost every other song on the record is perfect. Yeah, maybe not, maybe not productionwise right, but like, no, it's songwriting, freaking awesome songs. So like and and again, songwriting. Like I actually think the song itself is the is well written. So it's just a weird one for me. That's all. Like it's it's fine. I don't want it to go anywhere. Chris, do you have one that nobody's perfect? Yeah, no, I know. Yeah, I don't think I do either. I wouldn't. I wouldn't kick off ten seconds of this record. I don't think. Well, yeah, working off ten percent of the record. It's not fair. Yeah, yeah, what about growing out of shower either? One of you everyone. That took a while. So for me this was I think it was across the sea, and only because I don't think I got it at first. Like I don't think I like really had, like listen to the lyrics and really digested them and really understood stood the and I kind of felt the pain and the weirdness of it all. Yeah, so I I love I like this on a lot more now that I did when I first started. I it just did have an effect on me. The first time I heard I was like, oh, that's what the songs all right, I think mine might be falling for you, like...

I it's not like I didn't like it, I just feel like the complexity of it kind of grown me, especially after trying to learn how to play it. I'm like, Oh, this is got more stuff going on in it than I think I realized. All the parts. Yeah, it's got lots of stuff going on. Kyle, you got you have one man. I'm like, I'm like tempted to say the entire record, but my truth is I don't remember disliking it when I first heard it. I just wasn't ready for it, you know what I mean? Like I don't have any memory of it not being good, I just don't remember loving it until later. I'm actually glad you said that, because that I mean it's clearly the whole album is a grower, not a shower for a lot of people, like you're not alone in saying that. So I'm that's an interesting take and I think that's probably the best take, because it obviously took you know, all these critics and magazines and even rivers himself, like to go from liking, like being proud of it and then putting it out and then kind of hating it and then going back to being proud of it. Is Interesting, even from that standpoint like that he's the guy that wrote it and in two thousand and one that quote was brutal, what he said about it, and then to come around eventually and realize that, oh no, I think I made something good here. Yeah, yeah, I think it's I think the only reason it wasn't like that for me is because I bought both those albums at the same time, despite having heard the blue album you know, a bunch with friends and stuff like that. I hadn't owned it and I feel like because I got them at the same time, it felt more like I was like diving into wheezer and so they were. It wasn't. There wasn't an expectation of what it needed to be for me when I got it. So I think that's the only reason it was but I definitely didn't like I know there was a point where blue album I liked more than peerson and then Pinkerton sort of eclipse it a little bit. Well, I guess that's it. If you guys don't have anything to add. There's definitely our longest one so far. We did not split it, so we're just going to go for it. We appreciate you all listening to this really long one. Has Talk about Weezer for a long time. If you stuck around for this long, we appreciate it. We'd love it if you give us reviews or subscribe or tell your friends, or you can hit us up at Info at finding Emil pod or on any of the social media's at finding emo pod. Fun Thing. The guitars from acceptance commented it on our instagram post from last episode and that was cool. It's so awesome. It was great. I was like, Oh Gosh, I never really actually thought that a band that we talked about might actually listen to this. So still love that record. whish it would have been more successful, but it was cool to hear from someone that we got a lot of some of the details right. Yes, in our theories of why certain songs weren't singles and whatnot. So it was the handsome theory, I think. Really know? I think no, we definitely know. We know for sure they were handsome. So anyway, that's fun. You can comment just like and maybe, who knows, maybe we can get rivers to comment on this one. Probably not. I bet he's not on Instagram, just shot in the dark. Probably not gonna comment, but you can comment and tell us what we got right or wrong about Pinkerton and any of the other episodes. We will gladly chat with you on there. Other than that, we are going to catch you next time for a shorter episode. Sorry,.

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